Re: freedom

[Sylvia Schildt <creativa...>]

WELL SAID, Judith.

And please understand, we are not quesitoning KI for circles in which all
feel bound by it. Only in mixed venues.

Sylvia Schildt  


on 3/3/03 7:25 AM, Judith R Cohen at judithc (at) YorkU(dot)CA wrote:

> Alex, this is not freedom.
> 
> The woman is denied the right to exercise her singing profession if men
> decide she cannot do so.
> 
> It is not just that they are free to leave.
> 
> ANd Sylvia's remark did NOT imply an association with terrorism, if you
> read her message with the remotest degree of attention, she is talking
> about a process of REASONING.



Absolutely.  I am dealing with the whole issue of argument from a perceived
sacred authority.  A religious Southern Baptist believes it is his/her duty
to save Jews from Hell and bring them to JC. You can argue with them till
the cows come home and they will be unable to see how infuriating and
insulting such a proposition is to a Jew. I watched Schmuly Boteach try to
do it on a platform with Falwell. Impossible. Impassable.

> Saying it isn't a command for women is nonsense - maybe not in theory
> but in practice.
> 
> When women are free to sing IN PUBLIC and men are indeed free to attend
> or leave, that's cool.
> 
> Misguided , in my opinion, but , well, ok.
> 
> But how many times must we repeat:
> WHEN A WOMAN'S PERFORMANCE IS CANCELLED BECAUSE A FEW MEN FEEL ALL MEN
> SHOULD BE PROHIBITED FROM HEARING IT THAT IS NOT FREEDOM.
> 
> 
> THAT IS NOT FREEDOM.
> 
> 
> And if it's hypocritically masquerading as freedom of choice, it's even
> worse.
> If there's anything that infuraites me it's "oh, women are so much more
> spiritually strong than men that we men have to restrict what they can
> do and they have to realize it's because we honour them so much".
> 
> THAT IS NOT FREEDOM.
> 
> 
> Sylvia recounts that a male singer left the room after his part was over
> , knowing a woman singer followed. FIne. No problem. (except for him,
> missing the singer.)

This is where courtesy and respect comes into play.


 But what about here in Toornto when non-religious
> Jewish organizers - headed by a woman professor of sociology, yet - took
> both me and a Yemenite Jewish woman singer out of a concert of five
> musicians - in a university concert hall - at the last minute because
> one male performer was a hazan and his rabbi threatened to fire him if
> he sang on a stage "which would be contaminated by the presence of women
> singing"?
> 
> THAT IS NOT FREEDOM.
> For anyone, in fact.
> 
> Judith
> 
>> 2) Kol Isha is NOT a command for the woman, but
>> for the MAN, who is to EXCUSE himself from the
>> presence of a woman singing! The woman MAY sing, and
>> as much as she likes! However, if you COMPEL the
>> man to listen to the woman singing, even punish
>> him (derision, or exclusion, for instance), then
>> you have effectively FORCED him to listen!
>> And if you´re doing that AGAINS
> 
> 

---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+