Re: Order of National Anthems

[SamWeiss <SamWeiss...>]

Relax and rest assured that you probably will be criticized by someone in 
the audience regardless of which order you choose.  As you might imagine, 
cantors confront this issue on a regular basis, and this question came up 
not too long ago on our discussion group.  I offer the following synopsis 
of the replies for your entertainment more than for your guidance.
G'mar Tov
-Sam Weiss

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I'm looking for a definitive answer - when singing both anthems, which comes
first, Hatikvah or the Star Spangled Banner? And what is the rationale
behind your answer?
Thanks.

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The "Halakha" is that the host country allows the visiting country's anthem
to be sung first.  But because this can be interpreted to mean that the
visiting country is more important in the eyes of the participants than the
host country, the host country's anthem is most often sung first.  Therefore
the practical "Halakha" is 1) Star  2)  HaTikvah.

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It has been my experience that the National Anthem of the host country is sung
first, and then the other anthems, the rationale being the acknowledgement of
the country in which you stand at the moment as your host. I hope this is
helpful to you.

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At NHL games played in the USA, "O Canada" is always sung first, followed 
by TSSB. I have been told that, just as no other country's flag is allowed 
to be flown higher than the US flag on American soil, no other country's 
Anthem can follow the US Anthem. Ivan, as a proud ex-Marine, can you 
enlighten us?

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Regarding the correct and standard US protocol regarding the singing of the 
US national anthem where a "foreign" anthem is also sung, the following is 
the rule: "nothing follows the Star Spangled Banner", which means Hatikvah 
is sung FIRST. This rule however is reversed when the President ( of the 
US, not your shul!! ) is present, in which case the US national anthem is 
sung first.

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  >"foreign" anthem is also sung,
  >the following is the rule: "nothing follows
  >the Star Spangled Banner", which means
  >Hatikvah is sung FIRST

I heard it's the other way around-NOTHING preceeds the USA anthem so 
Hatikva is second-it's always been set up that way when they have me do it, 
I dont have to say anything and I always heard that was correct

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Just an observation -
If we're only singing two nations' anthems, you always have a 50% chance of
doing it right, whatever your choice ;-)

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When I sang on the USS Intrepid for a function, or for the Army, and most
importantly for a Brigadier General who is a regular Shabbat attendee, I was
instructed to sing the Star Spangled banner first. The only exception is when
protocol involves heads of state etc. at a ceremony.
If anyone has a difference of opinion I'll give you the 4 star general's
phone number!

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wouldn't the hatikvah come first in America? Unless, your thinking is that in
a synagogue the host is Judaism and the visitor is America. My experiences
have been that hatikava is sung first.  Isn't it interesting that even a
secular question doesn't have a definitive answer.

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BTW, back home in the old country (Australia) we used to sing only Hatikvah
at Jewish functions.  I don't remember ever singing two anthems.  Although I
vaguely recall that we may have sometimes sung the Australian anthem at the
beginning of the event, and Hatkivah at the end (or the other way round).

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I was also under the impression that just as no flag flies above or to the
right of the American flag, my experience was that TSSB preceded any other
anthem.

In reviewing a page from the Hadassah National Organization Department on
"Kashrut, Observance & Protocol," they quote the following citation,
possibly from the "U.S. Dept. of State: information embodied in Public Law
829-77th Congress:

...ANTHEMS - The Star Spangled Banner FOLLOWS the foreign country's anthem.
Therefore, at any public function, Hatikvah should be sung FIRST, The Star
Spangled Banner, LAST.

This holds true even when the guest speaker or visiting dignitary is an
Israeli.

THERE IS ONLY ONE EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE: When a visiting artist or group
(orchestra or chorus) from a foreign land PERFORMS the two anthems, the
anthem of the country of the visiting artist or group is played last.

The question remains: Is the citation in reference to the Flag Code ONLY
that precedes this section, or does it apply to anthems as well?  I should
be getting clarification by tomorrow.

The U.S. Flag Code "designate[s] The Star Spangled Banner as the national
anthem of the United States of America, all present except those in uniform
should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the
heart.  Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right
hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.
Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of
the anthem and retain this position until the last note.  When the flag is
not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the
same manner they would if the flag were displayed there" (Ch. 1, Sec.
170-171).

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There is an international protocol for anthems. The host country is
always last. As Stephen said; go to any sports event between a US and
Canadian team to verify this. The only real question comes up when more
than two are sung. Depending on whether there are any dignitaries
present, i.e. Prime Minister, Royalty, Presidents, the anthems prior to
the host are done in a pecking order of who is there. By the way,
because of our own prejudices, a President if if not democratically
elected, out ranks a Prime Minister. IF you remember the "so called"
peace signing between Israel and Egypt, the order was as follows:
Egypt's anthem because of President Sadat, Israel's anthem because of
Prime Minister Begin and last the Star Spangled banner, host anthem.

This means that for most of us when requested to sing anthem, the order
should always be Hatikvah followed by The Star Spangled Banner.


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Thanks to all of you who responded to my inquiries regarding whether to sing
Hatikvah or the Star-Spangled Banner first at a program or service. Your
answers were varied, though they basically fell into two categories:
Hatikvah first or The Star-Spangled Banner first. (Surprise, surprise!)

I did contact the Office of Protocol at
the State Department. The woman I spoke to was not aware of any printed
document detailing the protocol, but said that as a matter of practice, the
anthem of the visiting country is always played or sung first, followed by
the Star-Spangled Banner. She referred to the recent state visit by the
president of Mexico, at which the Mexican anthem was played first, followed
by the S.S.B. She said that this is done as a matter of courtesy to the
visitor.
This confirms what several of you indicated in your postings.

The reason I asked the question is because, for a number of years, I always
sang the S.S.B. first. Several years ago, I was corrected by a congregant
who was a past national vice-president of Women's League; I figured that
with all the events she had attended, she must know what she was talking
about. So, I changed and began singing Hatikvah first.

Earlier this week, I was questioned by a member of my current congregation
who thought that I had sung the anthems in the wrong order at a synagogue
event. So began my quest for "the correct answer."

Notwithstanding the "exceptions" which some of you noted, i.e., singing for
a brigadier-general on a battleship, or if the President is present (we
should only have that good fortune at some point in our careers!), it seems
clear that the proper protocol in most cases is for Hatikvah to be sung
first, followed by The Strar-Spangled Banner.