Re: Kol Ishah again

[Trudi Goodman <goobietheg...>]

   It's interesting that it's halacha when it has to do with women and their 
rights and needs....and oppression when it has to do with men.
I went to Lubavitch Yeshiva as a kid. The realities are that Orthodox Jewish 
men have problems with women.. Some Orthodox women either ignore that and do 
what they want and need to do...good for them.  Some Orthodox women choose 
to fight...equally good for them.
   Personally, this is what has kept me out of Orthodox shuls and  away from 
Chassidim for a long time... Not that they would care. They can keep their 
traditions and I'll just keep mine.  I have respect for what works in 
Judaism that keeps people equal...and there is alot of that...not for what 
passes as tradition and is oppressive.
   P.S.  My cousin was the Chief Rabbi of Boston...he probably wouldn't like 
what I'm saying here. But he would stand for my right to say it.  THAT'S 
JEWISH HALACHA, TOO!!!
    Trudi Goodman


>From: TROMBAEDU (at) aol(dot)com
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Kol Ishah again
>Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:07:47 EST
>
>In a message dated 3/9/00 5:35:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org writes:
>
><< Here's the problem I have with this.  If I understand correctly, there 
>is
>nothing
>  in the Tanach that prohibits men from hearing women sing during specific
>prayers
>  or any other time.  At some point in history, some man was distracted by 
>a
>woman's>>
>
>You are correct. But Halacha is not determined strictly by what is in the
>Written Law.
>
><<voice and decided to make it a law to not hear it.  It is always a goal 
>in
>prayer
>  that one's kavanah be centered wholly on the prayer, but so many things 
>might
>  distract any person.  Maybe this man had a personal problem, but that was 
>way
>  before Freud, so he had an alternate, testosterone-empowered way of 
>dealing
>with
>  it - rub it out.>>
>
>There is nothing in the oral law to suggest that such an incident occurred
>  << From my admittedly incomplete studies, I don't believe this was
>  an original intention of our maker.  The laws of Judaism, while 
>enlightened
>as to
>  Humanity, can be repressive to women and this, again IMHO, was a male
>  interpretation of the divine intention.>>
>
>Perhaps oppressive. But it is divine intention to follow the rulings of the
>Rabbis of the Oral Tradition. That is a fundamental principle of Judaism.
>When the more recent movements within Judaism chose to de-emphasize the 
>Oral
>component of Tradition, as represented by the Talmud and its commentaries,
>the Orthodox Rabbinate and laity chose to maintain its sacred status. Your
>opinion is only valid if those with whom you are dealing agree that they 
>can
>throw out or disregard 2000 years of sanctity of the Oral Law.
>
>
><<  We are imperfect and have not represented
>  perfection perfectly. >>
>
>Agreed. One of the tragedies of the Jewish condition is that due to our
>inability to overcome the faults which led to the destruction of the 2nd
>Temple and the institutions of Jewish self rule, the institutions such as
>Sanhedrin which could deal with these issues do not exist.
>
><< It is up to humanity to strive for continual approximation
>  of this perfection.  Mistakes should be corrected; apologies and 
>retribution
>made
>  to those wronged.  That is the Jewish way. >>
>Retribution? Please! No one owes anybody anything because you cant sing for
>Orthodox audiences. Perhaps it is you who should be sensitive to the
>sensibilities of a community which courageously holds to religious 
>principles
>despite the temptations of the times and our new found freedom not to do 
>so.
>Some of those religious principles are uncomfortable at best. Don't 
>compound
>their struggle by delegitimizing their adherence to Halacha, which some of 
>us
>actually believe has Kedusha, The Jewish Way? Adherence to Halacha is the
>Jewish way. You have a different way to do that? So be it, but don't deride
>those who do it according to an unbroken chain of tradition which has
>survived every up and down of the Jewish People.
>
>Good Shabbos,
>
>Jordan
>
>

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