Re: promiscuous fusionizers

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

Just another tiny comment (I do mostly want to leave this to the musicians): 
  If by "high artification" Henry's referring to the downtown/RJC/Knitting 
Factory/etc. scene--i.e., jazz-inflected klezmer or, really much more I 
would think, klezmer or Jewish-inflected jazz (no doubt w/ fusions of other 
things), wouldn't it be helpful to recognize the music of these scene as 
*something else*--a different, new genre and style, influenced by klezmer 
and by many other traditions (*esp.* jazz)?  _Of course_ it's not klezmer; 
it's ... well, it *is*--it is what it is, a new genre growing out (as it 
only could have) of this time and place, which pleases/intrigues/inspires or 
not (I find it does, somewhat, in a reflective/ruminative rather than 
vigorous/dancing [or ethnic!] way, but that's just me).  It's not "artified" 
(?) klezmer; it just ... is.  -- rlc




> >> Henry Sapoznik wrote:
> >>
> >> >I think klezmer suffers from both high artification and from the
> >> promiscuous
> >> >fusionizers who meld it with music forms they understand far better 
>than
> >> they
> >> >do klezmer.
> >> >IMnotsoHO...
> >>
> >> Very well said and right on target.   "Promiscuous fusionizers"
> >
> >H-mm.  So the creative non-conformist who expresses him/herself witha lot 
>of
> >personal and contemporary style, and not from an expected  position based 
>on
> >archived yiddishkayt-in-a-box nostalgia or novelty, is now musically 
>immoral,
> >too?  Interesting concept.
> >
> >In my experience, the word "promiscuous" is usually trotted out by the 
>envious
> >and the vengeful in an attempt to besmirch somebody's character because 
>they
> >are perceived as having too much or the wrong kind of close interpersonal
> >contact.
> >I don't like it.
> >
> >Please, -- Kabalas, Alan Eder/Pesach Posse, Klezperanto, Neshama, et al.,
> >keep making more great, original and  "promiscuous" music.
> >
> >Remember to practice safe sax.
> >
> >Wolf Krakowski
> >
> >
> >Kame'a Media
> >http://www.kamea.com
> >
> >
> >
> >> - I really
> >> like that phrase very much.   They are the ones filling up most of the
> >> concert halls, because where else can such artifice go today?   I can 
>say
> >> that very little of it is really creative and I have been to the last
> >> Ashkenaz Festival where some of the best of that was presented.   
>(There
> >> was one moment [in the concert of all new compositions] where the noisy
> >> jazz in the all new compositions program was so annoying that I truly 
>felt
> >> like throwing a Molotov Cocktail just to stop that pure noise.  I soon
> >> found out that many others were equally annoyed.)  There are reasons 
>why
> >> opera companies know that they can present the same operas year after 
>year,
> >> and theaters succeed in showing revivals and mothers keep on baking the
> >> same meatloaf for generations or people continue listening to the same
> >> classical musical repertory.   When people have refined a grammatical 
>form
> >> to become a classics in that genre, they respect and cherich it.
> >>
> >> Reyzl
> >>
> >> ----------
> >> From:  ganzl azoi freyl [SMTP:d6l (at) hotmail(dot)com]
> >> Sent:  Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:27 PM
> >> To:  World music from a Jewish slant
> >> Subject:  re: klez go classical
> >>
> >> i'm flattered to be described as "difficult to keep on a leash" <smile>
> >> and 'course i don't mind being shredded and reassembled, but i would 
>prefer
> >> my tangents and asides be less central to your response, josh...
> >>
> >> my basic point (as distinctly opposed to your 'socratic summary') has
> >> always
> >> been about *emphasis*, not exclusion (the first time "banning" anything
> >> came
> >> up in this thread was when you put it in my mouth--please take it right
> >> back
> >> out, 'kay?).  i'm in no way opposed to sitting in a concert hall 
>listening
> >> to klezmer (or tuvan 'throat singing' or stravinski for that matter).  
>what
> >> i see as potentially dangerous is the concert hall becoming the *only* 
>or
> >> *primary* site for klezmer music.
> >>       the 'change and development' in music which i've said is 
>necessary
> >> can
> >> happen in any context.... *but* when it mainly happens in concert halls 
>it
> >> seems to me far more likely to lose its connections to other parts of 
>the
> >> culture it's rooted in than when the experimentation is happening in a
> >> variety of venues (among which the concert hall should of course be
> >> present,
> >> but not dominant).
> >>
> >> incidentally, you imply that there's a contradiction between dancing to 
>and
> >> listening to music.  if anything, i'd want to argue that the opposite 
>is
> >> true-- you just *can't* dance without paying serious attention to the
> >> musicians; it's easy to sit and drift...  it's also worth mentioning 
>that
> >> venues with space to dance tend also to accomodate those who just want 
>to
> >> sit, while concert halls tend to frown upon dancing (with some
> >> exceptions--the 'in the fiddler's house' tour being the first to occur 
>to
> >> me).
> >>
> >> finally, it seems more than a bit disingenuous to describe "listening" 
>in
> >> the concert-hall sense as part of the traditional wedding context of
> >> klezmer.  then again, it seems thoroughly unnecessary to appeal to that
> >> context to establish something as worthwhile for klezmer in 1999 (yes, 
>i do
> >> think that concert-hall type listening is worthwhile)
> >>    --unless, that is, you want to insist that all klezmer contexts 
>should
> >> include dancing, wine, and a rabbi (which is probably closer to my 
>position
> >> <wink>)--
> >>
> >> that's it for me....
> >> ideologically yours,
> >> zayt gezunt,
> >>
> >> daniel
> >>
> >> p.s. "hidden agenda"?  what's *hidden*?
> >>
> >> p.p.s.
> >> for reference, snipped for concision--
> >> josh wrote:
> >>
> >> >That "variety of directions" excludes the classical venue, seemingly
> >> >because it doesn't allow for you to breakdance and also because it
> >> >encourages the act of listening (in your former email, you refer to 
> >this
> >> >as the "sit-in-yer-seat experience").
> >> >
> >> >In spite of the fact that listening was a part of the original context
> >> (the
> >> >wedding) in which klezmer music developed, and represents a further
> >> >possibility for "change and development," it >is banned from your list 
>of
> >> >outlets which allow klezmer music to >evolve.
> >> >
> >> >Rather than antithesize the contradictions in your argument, I would
> >> >rather manipulate them into a synthesized Socratic summary, using
> >>
> >> >In spite of actually sympathizing with some of your sentiments, Dan,
> >> >it's hard to resist uncovering a hidden agenda in your ideology. Josh
> >>
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>

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