RE: RE: Der yidisher tam

[Marvin3809 <Marvin3809...>]

I can't buy your argument that "That means people should be thoroughly steeped
in the tradition as a first requirement.  Only then will they be able to judge
what changes might be for the better,  or at least of equal quality, and what
changes might be for the worse.   When you are able to be creative from within
a tradition, that's when  it's a living tradition."

What tradition do you mean?  There is no "Jewish tradition" in music.  I have
a tape of Adon Alom sung by Moroccan Jews to a typical North African Arab
melody.  That is a Jewish tradition, but not the one you probably have in
mind.

Every creative person starts from somewhere, not from a blank page.  But then
he must innovate.  Classical composers like Bach and Mozart departed from
their "tradition" and created something wonderful to this day.  Listening to
Mozart played of reconstructed instrument so his time is of interest to the
musicologist and some others, but I prefer Mozart played on  modern
instruments.  That is my tradition in hearing classical music.  A difference
between Beethoven's piano pieces and Mozart's is that Beethoven composed for
the modern piano, but I do not want to hear either played on a piano of
Mozart's time.

If you want to preserve your tradition, you are free to do so.  But don't tell
me that it is THE Jewsih tradition.  I know better.  

> From: svzandt (at) igc(dot)apc(dot)org (Solidarity Foundation)
> Sender:       owner-jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> Reply-to:     jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> To:   jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org (World music from a Jewish slant.)
> On Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:54:13 EST, Marvin3809 wrote:
> 
> It seems that the only difference between us is whether it is OK for tastes
to
> change. 
> No, I think almost everybody involved in this "Itsy-Bitsy Spider"
discussion.
> myself included, wants tastes to change. The question is, in what direction
> should they change? The question is, what is the RESPONSIBILITY of those
> of us who are musicians, in influencing the tastes of those we play or 
> sing or daven for? The question is, is taste just something indifferent, or
> does it play an important role in our cultural and religious lives?
> 
>  Are you saying "Stop the world!  I want to get off"? - asks Marvin3809
> 
> I-L: "The World" is not the only factor in change. The other factor is
> ourselves, as ethical agents, with responsibility for what we do. "The
> World" is now eating up cultures like they were bagels. I don't believe
> a responsible person in Jewish culture just sits there like a bagel. A
> responsible person thinks about the specifics of what's happening, also
> about what ought to be or needs to be accomplished, and how to go about
> doing it. They'll have different responses, but they'll respond in an
> active not a passive way, to "the world".
> 
> You write:
> The biggest change of all would be if the world stopped changing.
> 
> Right. That's why that's never the issue. The issue is what should the
> changes be? I am advocating changes in terms of a tradition. That means
> people should be thoroughly steeped in the tradition as a first requirement.
> Only then will they be able to judge what changes might be for the better,
> or at least of equal quality, and what changes might be for the worse.
> When you are able to be creative from within a tradition, that's when
> it's a living tradition. That's what I'm advocating, Marvin3809.
> 
> Then you write:
> If you can't find a restaurant that serves the kind of food you like,
perhaps
> it is because the ones that didn't change their menus didn't have enough
> customers. 
> 
> Perhaps it's because their landlords just tripled their rent for a new
> commercial lease.
> 
> You write:
>   I'd also like to have old-fashioned bagels, but there don't seem
> to be enough of us left to keep some bakers producing them.
> No, there are enough of us. Too many of them, or their corporate owners,
> don't give a damn. For example, if you use malt, it takes longer for the
> dough to rise. So they use sugar. That's why the bagels are becoming
> sweet. That's just one of the little tricks downgrading the product.
> I don't think we should be so glib about Jewish culture being determined
> by the "free market." I didn't know my culture was for sale.
> 
> It least I can still get real bialy's at Kossars - and now they are kosher.
> How long will that last? 
> I don't know. But maybe it'll last if we do something. In Britain, they
> formed CAMRA to prevent the disappearance of real ale. It had a trememndous
> success. I think we need a world-wide movement to protect reality, period.
> Itzik-Leyb
> 
> 
> 
>