Re: What is Jewish Music?

[wiener <wiener...>]

This reminds me of a student who said that she sang a Jewish prayer
with her gospel group.  When she sang an excerpt, it was indeed in
Hebrew.  Something about Jesus being the Messiah.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Alex J. Lubet <lubet001 (at) maroon(dot)tc(dot)umn(dot)edu>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: What is Jewish Music?


>Responding to the message of <3B1D2903(dot)8B086C0B (at) 
>staff(dot)chuh(dot)org>
>from jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org:
>>
>> Relax, it wasn't a challenge!  I just wanted to know what you all
felt.  This
>> is a
>> discussion forum, isn't it?
>>
>Forgive, me!  I'm used to nasty verbal attacks and it's a reflex that
isn't
>always useful.
>
>Per your question, I don't think I have enough information to even
give my
>opinion, especially since the piece hasn't even been written.  I will
say
>thought that non-Jewish composers who appropriate Jewish source
materials often
>give me the willies.  I get requests like this pretty often (and it's
a bit
>complicated to refuse to share musical knowledge with a student who
asks for it
>in a public university) and they often want to use Jewish sources to
pursue some
>kind of explicitly Christian agenda.  If that's the case, there's no
way I could
>consider it Jewish music, a conclusion I would hope would be shared
by others on
>the list.  When a non-Jewish student does this I often feel like that
person is
>coming into my house uninvited and helping himself to my most
precious
>possessions without asking.  Such a person can't possibly value what
I teach him
>in the same way I do.
>
>
>
>
>> Alex Lubet wrote:
>>
>> > >How about the case of the man who asked a question of our list
recently
>> > about
>> > >klezmer music to be referenced in a work being written to honor
Holocaust
>> > >survivors, written by someone not Jewish:  is that Jewish music?
>> > >
>> > I could provide an answer to this particular case, but in the
long
>> > run that would be unproductive.  It would be better for you to
>> > attempt to apply the definition and come up with your own answer.
>> >
>> > I attempted to provide a means to evaluate cases which I stated
was
>> > fluid and contingent and which permitted many variables of agency
>> > regarding the 'use' of music.  I had no intention of providing a
>> > formula that was failsafe and upon which everyone engaged in this
>> > debate would agree.  If one attempts to answer this question on a
>> > case-by-case basis in which only the composition and the composer
are
>> > considered, I would recommend revisiting the definition, because
>> > using music and composing it are neither the same thing nor
mutually
>> > inclusive.  I'm also not interested in playing stump the band
with
>> > people who want to poke holes in the definition I provided.  I'm
>> > personally quite happy with it and pleased that it continues to
>> > provoke discussion, which is may be as much as one can ask of an
>> > idea.  In my experience of having debated the definition of
Jewish
>> > music for many years, I've found that most people who don't like
my
>> > definition either provide one that is far more limiting (often
>> > revolving around nusach or liturgy) or throw their hands up in
the
>> > air and say it can't be defined.
>> >
>> > If you don't like my definition, come up with your own.  I'm
actually
>> > quite capable of generating my own problematic cases and my own
>> > ambivalent answers.  Since there's no universally accepted
definition
>> > of either music or Jewish, the problem a complex.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
>> > Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
>> > Adjunct Professor of American and Jewish Studies
>> > University of Minnesota
>> > 100 Ferguson Hall
>> > Minneapolis, MN 55455
>> > 612 624-7840 (o)
>> > 612 699-1097 (h)
>> > 612 624-8001  ATTN:  Alex Lubet (FAX)
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>
>
>Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
>Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
>Adjunct Professor of American and Jewish Studies
>University of Minnesota
>2106 4th St. S
>Minneapolis, MN 55455
>612 624-7840 612 624-8001 (fax)
>
>----------------------
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>