Re: YBD: help find a cure and stamp it out in your lifetime!!!!!

[Eliott Kahn <Elkahn...>]

At 03:59 PM 4/30/01 +0000, you wrote:
>  
>Labels are useless. The bottom line is respectfulness. And at the risk of 
>being redundantly redundant: some of the men on this list need to deprogram 
>themselves from the more standard Jewish Male way of looking at any woman who 
>wants what is rightfully hers, religiously and otherwise as being a 
>combination of a khurve and a yenta. That, and that a religiously trained 
>woman couldn't or wouldn't possibly want to change "tradition." Read here: 
>Male domination in the Jewish Religious and Cultural spheres.
>  

Trudi:

But if "labels are useless" and "the bottom line is respectfulness," why are 
you stereotyping "some of the men on this list" and their "standard Jewish Male 
way...."

The issue of women's participation in Judaism is--judging from the 
vitriol--obviously a hot button issue. It's obvious that something should be 
done to empower women in a fair and equitable fashion. But, as I've continually 
said, what makes Orthodox Judaism appealing to some of us--myself included--is 
the desire not to throw everything traditional away and jump on the first 
ideological bandwagon. That is part of its charm and that is why some of us 
treasure it. 

I believe many of the reasons it seems so hard to initiate a meaningful 
dialogue on the role of  women in Orthodox Judaism--Halacha aside--are usually 
tied up with the changing roles of men and women in our current society. Many 
of us do not want to see traditional roles challenged and discarded quite so 
quickly. It is not as simple as saying that men want to deny a woman who "wants 
what is rightfully hers," but, rather, we all should be trying to get a handle 
on the natures of men and women, how they differ or are similar, and what we 
want/expect from worship and our religious and cultural institutions.

I seem to recall hearing during the seventies--a time I refer to as "the golden 
age of divorce"--how both men and women could "have it all," and how children 
and families would remain both financially and emotionally intact, in spite of 
divorce. Many of us jumped on that bandwagon only to find that time and 
experience has proved many of these notions false.

I believe it is this type of knee-jerk reaction that many of the men on this 
list are objecting to.  If we are going to DISCUSS something, then let's 
discuss it. But I can almost guarantee that bringing in the slings and arrows 
of outrageous sexual politics will only muddy--and slime--the waters.

Eliott Kahn

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