Re: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"

[Trudi Goodman <goobietheg...>]

  Yes, Lee. You got it. Her music is fine...I don't like her.
   A Gute Shabbos!
     Trudi the G


>From: Lee Friedman <apikoyros (at) juno(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"
>Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 12:18:04 -0500 (EST)
>
>Trudi,
>I don't want to belabor the point, and I'm not
>particularly attached to Joan Baez or her career,
>but you offered that you didn't like "Joan Baez,"
>not that you didn't care for her music. That's what
>I reacted to and counter-offered a few good things
>about her. A musical reassessment would have to take
>in a lot of things.
>
>As a performer yourself, you know the difference
>between good or bad performances and the qualities
>and character of the people who are performing them.
>Scoundrels can make beautiful music, and vice versa.
>You are entitled to "pan" her performances if you
>feel that they lacked something, but unless she "did
>you wrong" personally, ....
>
>zay gezunt,
>Lee
>
>------Original Message------
>From: "Trudi Goodman" <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Sent: March 9, 2001 4:55:29 PM GMT
>Subject: Re: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"
>
>
>Yes, she has a very beautiful voice, but personally I find her
>over-earnest and boring.
>I could care that she mispronounced Yiddish....although on some level I
>do care, because I love Yiddish. Nu? I just am not carzy about her
>music.
>Why am I explaining this to you? Different strokes for different
>folkies..okay?
>
>
>
> >From: Leopold N Friedman <apikoyros (at) juno(dot)com>
> >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Subject: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"
> >Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:20:57 -0500
> >
> >Trudi,
> >What have you got against Joan Baez?
> >That she mispronounced an originally Yiddish word?
> >
> >She sang us some beautiful songs and inspired
> >songwriters to write for her and still is a role model
> >for many younger women performers. One could do
> >a lot worse.
> >Lee
> >
> >--------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: "Trudi Goodman" <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
> >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 23:17:09
> >Subject: Re: "Donna Donna"
> >Message-ID: <F251IqtQvAauNjVuMhv00002cb5 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
> >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
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> >
> >   Ah yet another reason to not like Joan Baez
> >
> >
> > >From: "Robert Cohen" <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
> > >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> > >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > >Subject: Re: "Donna Donna"
> > >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:00:24
> > >
> > >I think I can shed light on a few of the points (I'm catching up)
>raised
> >in
> > >connection with this song (which was indeed written by Aaron Zeitlin
> >with
> > >music by Secunda).
> > >
> > >Teddi Schwartz was (indeed) the co-composer (with Arthur Kevess; I
>think
> >I
> > >have the spelling right) of the most well-known translation--i.e.
>(see
> > >below), the one sung by Joan Baez.  I *think* it was from her--I met
>her
> > >once and asked her about the song--that I learned:
> > >
> > >*that Zeitlin (not Secunda, who just wrote the music) appropriated
>the
> > >syllable "Dona"--which I believe she told me he intended should be
> > >pronounced "Dunna," as in "gonna"--to resemble the sound (i.e.,
>vocable)
> >of
> > >Polish peasants dancing.  That matches what Reyzl was told by her own
> > >excellent informant; and
> > >
> > >*that he--Zeitlin--was amused at all the speculation (beginning, I
> >gather,
> > >some time ago) regarding the "meaning" of the vocable--esp. in re the
> > >resemblance/allusion to a name of G*d.  It had no (such) "meaning" at
> > >all--at least, none that Zeitlin intended.
> > >
> > >Now:  How come the whole world--other than on knowledgeable Yiddish
> > >recordings--sings it "Doe-na Doe-na"?  ("Doe" as in a female deer,
>etc.)
> > >
> > >Well, this *is* the "folk process" at work--but as modifed,
> >substantially,
> > >by commercial media:  specifically, the phonograph.
> > >
> > >When Joan Baez was shown the song--I am almost certain in a printed
> > >version--by a Boston-area folkie, she evidently decided it should be
> > >pronounced "Doe-na"--and that's how she said it.
> > >
> > >Her first album, on which "Donna Donna" appeared, was the
> >largest-selling
> > >LP
> > >by a woman singer in history to that date (since exceeded by Carole
>King
> >
> > >and
> > >subsequently by Madonna and who knows now).  Solely, I think, as a
> >result
> > >of
> > >that record--I don't think Bikel really had much to do with it--the
>song
> > >went around the world, appearing in countless songsters and
>collections,
> > >sung in coffeehouses, at camps and campfires, among adults and teens,
> >etc.,
> > >etc., etc.  (Teddi Schwartz showed me a letter from Joan's office
> >thanking
> > >her for the translation and advising her that the song was the single
> >most
> > >requested song of Joan's [!] in Europe.)
> > >
> > >So people (other than knowledgeable Yiddishists, mind you, but
>including
> >a
> > >lot of them too, when they're singing in adult camps and other
> > >settings--I've heard them) sing "Doe-na" because that's the way Joan
> >sang
> > >it.  Purely and simply.
> > >
> > >Hope that's illuminating and ties up some loose ends.
> > >
> > >--Robert Cohen
> > >
> > >
> > >
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