Re: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"

[Lee Friedman <apikoyros...>]

Trudi,
I don't want to belabor the point, and I'm not
particularly attached to Joan Baez or her career,
but you offered that you didn't like "Joan Baez,"
not that you didn't care for her music. That's what
I reacted to and counter-offered a few good things
about her. A musical reassessment would have to take
in a lot of things.

As a performer yourself, you know the difference
between good or bad performances and the qualities
and character of the people who are performing them.
Scoundrels can make beautiful music, and vice versa.
You are entitled to "pan" her performances if you
feel that they lacked something, but unless she "did
you wrong" personally, ....

zay gezunt,
Lee

------Original Message------
From: "Trudi Goodman" <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Sent: March 9, 2001 4:55:29 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"


Yes, she has a very beautiful voice, but personally I find her
over-earnest and boring.
I could care that she mispronounced Yiddish....although on some level I
do care, because I love Yiddish. Nu? I just am not carzy about her
music.
Why am I explaining this to you? Different strokes for different
folkies..okay?



>From: Leopold N Friedman <apikoyros (at) juno(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Fw: Re: "Donna Donna"
>Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:20:57 -0500
>
>Trudi,
>What have you got against Joan Baez?
>That she mispronounced an originally Yiddish word?
>
>She sang us some beautiful songs and inspired
>songwriters to write for her and still is a role model
>for many younger women performers. One could do
>a lot worse.
>Lee
>
>--------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: "Trudi Goodman" <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2001 23:17:09
>Subject: Re: "Donna Donna"
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>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
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>
>   Ah yet another reason to not like Joan Baez
>
>
> >From: "Robert Cohen" <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
> >Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Subject: Re: "Donna Donna"
> >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:00:24
> >
> >I think I can shed light on a few of the points (I'm catching up)
raised
>in
> >connection with this song (which was indeed written by Aaron Zeitlin
>with
> >music by Secunda).
> >
> >Teddi Schwartz was (indeed) the co-composer (with Arthur Kevess; I
think
>I
> >have the spelling right) of the most well-known translation--i.e.
(see
> >below), the one sung by Joan Baez.  I *think* it was from her--I met
her
> >once and asked her about the song--that I learned:
> >
> >*that Zeitlin (not Secunda, who just wrote the music) appropriated
the
> >syllable "Dona"--which I believe she told me he intended should be
> >pronounced "Dunna," as in "gonna"--to resemble the sound (i.e.,
vocable)
>of
> >Polish peasants dancing.  That matches what Reyzl was told by her own
> >excellent informant; and
> >
> >*that he--Zeitlin--was amused at all the speculation (beginning, I
>gather,
> >some time ago) regarding the "meaning" of the vocable--esp. in re the
> >resemblance/allusion to a name of G*d.  It had no (such) "meaning" at
> >all--at least, none that Zeitlin intended.
> >
> >Now:  How come the whole world--other than on knowledgeable Yiddish
> >recordings--sings it "Doe-na Doe-na"?  ("Doe" as in a female deer,
etc.)
> >
> >Well, this *is* the "folk process" at work--but as modifed,
>substantially,
> >by commercial media:  specifically, the phonograph.
> >
> >When Joan Baez was shown the song--I am almost certain in a printed
> >version--by a Boston-area folkie, she evidently decided it should be
> >pronounced "Doe-na"--and that's how she said it.
> >
> >Her first album, on which "Donna Donna" appeared, was the
>largest-selling
> >LP
> >by a woman singer in history to that date (since exceeded by Carole
King
>
> >and
> >subsequently by Madonna and who knows now).  Solely, I think, as a
>result
> >of
> >that record--I don't think Bikel really had much to do with it--the
song
> >went around the world, appearing in countless songsters and
collections,
> >sung in coffeehouses, at camps and campfires, among adults and teens,
>etc.,
> >etc., etc.  (Teddi Schwartz showed me a letter from Joan's office
>thanking
> >her for the translation and advising her that the song was the single
>most
> >requested song of Joan's [!] in Europe.)
> >
> >So people (other than knowledgeable Yiddishists, mind you, but
including
>a
> >lot of them too, when they're singing in adult camps and other
> >settings--I've heard them) sing "Doe-na" because that's the way Joan
>sang
> >it.  Purely and simply.
> >
> >Hope that's illuminating and ties up some loose ends.
> >
> >--Robert Cohen
> >
> >
> >
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