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Re: "Songs to the Invisible God" review...
- From: Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>
- Subject: Re: "Songs to the Invisible God" review...
- Date: Wed 22 Mar 2000 03.24 (GMT)
This is mostly for better-versed scholars than I, but, FWIW: 1) The first
notated piece of Jewish liturgical music dates from, I believe (I'm not near
my books) the 10th century, not the 15th); and 2) To listen to London via
Amsterdam via Spain via ... ? settings of Psalms and other Biblical and
liturgical material is to listen to what we today recognize as Gregorian
chant--and is, probably, a pretty good idea, or as close as we can get, to
what "we" (i.e., Jews--or the Levitical choirs, anyway) sounded like in
Second Temple days. -- Robert Cohen
>From: " Judah Cohen" <jcohen (at) fas(dot)harvard(dot)edu>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: "Songs to the Invisible God" review...
>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 23:30:15 -0500
>
>Eliot,
>
>First things first: I want to clarify that I make no overtures to say that
>Christian monophonic chant is NOT derived from Jewish chant. Rather, I
>assert that there is not enough evidence to prove anything definitive in
>either direction.
>
>I've been through much of Lachmann and Avenary's work. Here's what I've
>seen:
>
>Lachmann did not produce much: he died at a very young age (41), and his
>only major monograph is his 1934(?) Jewish Cantillation and Song of the
>Isle
>of Djerba. He's also responsible for helping establish the fabulous
>archive
>of Jewish music at the Hebrew University. While his forte was what he
>called "Oriental" music, he did little to feed into the "Jewish from
>Christian Chant" issue.
>
>Hanoch Avenary is to me one of the most careful and thoughtful Jewish
>musicologists of his age--I think his Encyclopedia Judaica article is
>generally about as good a summary of the subject as was known then. While
>he focused primarily on source studies and observations of diverse Jewish
>groups in Israel, he did occasionally take a stab at some issues of earlier
>derivation (such as the use music in biblical times, etc.). I recall from
>reading many of his essays (especially his 1979 "Encounters of East and
>West
>in Music") that he is careful about making Werner's assumptions, being very
>clear to cite the limits of the materials available to him.
>
>Having a good amount of Gregorian chant study under my belt as well, and
>having explored the very issue of its relation to Jewish chant for quite a
>bit of time, I've come to just the opposite conclusion. My reasoning:
>Jewish chant as we know it (which is primarily from the Masoretes c. the
>10th century) consists of symbols representing melodic formulae, often with
>little correlation between the symbol itself and the contour of the melody
>it represents. Every form of neumatic chant I've seen (and I've studied
>and
>transcribed several) contains neumes that *look* like they could be trop
>symbols, but actually conform almost exactly to the melodic contours they
>represent (this, after all, is how Western musical notation eventually
>developed in the first place). This to me became one disjuncture that
>threw a big wrench into what seemed initially to be an elegant theory of
>connection.
>
>Upon further searching, the comparisons between the two systems fell apart
>for me. Whatever "melodic" motifs there are in Gregorian chant are not
>nearly as consistently placed as they are in Jewish biblical chant, and
>need
>to be ripped irregularly out of the neumes themselves in order to be
>identified for comparison. Even then, the comparison is messy at best,
>with
>a number of extraneous notes to be dealt with in between motifs. It just
>didn't work for me.
>
>Moreover, Christian and Jewish chant are used for two almost exclusive
>purposes: Jewish chant is used to chant from biblical texts *ONLY* (though
>a simplified system appears to exist for reading psalms). Conversely, I
>have NEVER seen an entire, continuous book of the bible set to Gregorian
>chant. Rather, I've seen Christian monodic chant set prayer rituals. On
>this comparison alone, Gregorian chant is much closer to the Jewish system
>of nusach and "modes" than to the Biblical Chant system [though I honestly
>believe this too is impossible to ascertain]; it makes it seem to me that a
>comparison to Jewish cantillation symbols exists more because they are
>*THERE* rather than because they make a convincing comparison.
>
>The big kicker for me, though, is that *we actually don't know what Jewish
>Biblical chant sounded like.* At the absolute earliest, manuscripts with
>any Western notation of Jewish chant whatsoever appear in the 15th century
>(and I may be erring on the early side). The vast majority of what we know
>in terms of melodic "motifs" of the trop markings comes from observations
>made in Israel in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (as spearheaded by
>the research of Abraham Z. Idelsohn). And as I mentioned before, any
>definitive source of organization of melodic motifs dates from the 10th
>century with the Masoretic codex. How, then, is it even possible to create
>a source for comparison without assuming that oral traditions remained
>absolutely static for over two thousand and one thousand years
>respectively?
>Even if you take wholesale Idelsohn's theory that the melodic formulae of
>the trop system all came from a single source (i.e., the Temple; Avenary
>among others has placed this theory in doubt), the wide variation
>documented
>among the numerous musical traditions, even in a single trop marking, makes
>any comparison to Gregorian chant motifs a nearly impossible task.
>
>
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- Re: "Songs to the Invisible God" review..., (continued)