Re: art and pop/folk singing

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

For years I was a shower singer who occasionally sang in choruses and
shul (including a Kol Nidre gig).  I also recorded singing messages on
my answering machine.

A number of years ago I took my first singing lessons.  Soon after, my
brother observed that my answering machine message sounded less forced
and more natural, even though my voice was now trained whereas before
it had been untrained.  I took that as a sign that my lessons had been
successful.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Cohen <rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2000 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: art and pop/folk singing


>I'm sure the song you mean begins "Some Say Love"--I can't remember
the
>actual title, but can easily look it up--and was recorded with, I
believe,
>Placido Domingo.  And though I think it's a truly beautiful song and
melody,
>I believe his (PD's) singing on it has often been mocked, I guess
because to
>many ears it sounds ... well, overwrought--inappropriate for *this*
song.
>
>And I think that's something of a key--good singing, trained or
untrained,
>sounds "natural"; if it sounds overwrought, it's probably not good.
>(There's a Duke Ellington link here somewhere.)  I don't personally
care for
>grand opera either, but I used to disdain all trained voices as
sounding
>phony, artificial, "overwrought," I guess (hell, Barbra *always*
sounds
>overwrought, doesn't she?) until a lovely person and a lovely singer
(in
>fact, as it happens, a former student of Isabelle's--but please let
me keep
>her name to myself, OK?) taught me that that was my own inappropriate
>generalization formed from listening to *bad* "trained voice"
singing.  I
>listened to Richard Tucker, I believe, singing "Shalom" from MILK AND
>HONEY--I'm not sure if my friend had me listen to it, or I just
stumbled on
>it--and heard how a (no doubt marvelously?) trained voice could sing
a pop
>song from a musical with heart and sincerity and warmth and flair on
every
>syllable.
>
>Just my (untrained) (but now better informed) sense -- Robert Cohen
>
>
>>From: Matt Jaffey <mjaffey2 (at) mum(dot)edu>
>>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>>Subject: Re: Reply to Isabelle: re Clarinet
>>Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:04:49
>>
>>To Dan Singer,
>>
>>Since you are a singer, and I'm not, I will assume that you know
what you
>>are talking about with respect to vocal tone production. However, I
don't
>>agree with what you said about clarinet playing:
>>
>><<Comparing the untrained voice to an operatic singer is like
comparing the
>>tone of the clarinet in klezmer to the clarinet in a symphony>> etc.
etc.
>>
>>I'm a violinist, but I study with Kurt Bjorling, a fairly well known
>>klezmer clarinetist. Kurt not only has the professional training to
play in
>>a symphony, he continues to take lessons from a member of the
Chicago
>>symphony. But guess what - he said that it took him a long time to
develop
>>the proper tone for klezmer on the clarinet. As for kvetches,
krechts etc.
>>there is quite an art to these, and room for a great deal of subtle
>>variation.
>>
>>I have experienced the same thing on the violin. Having spent the
better
>>part of my life cultivating methods of classical tone production and
>>ornamentation, I found it quite a challenge, to develop an idiomatic
>>klezmer violin sound. Actually, I think that most violinists who
play
>>klezmer have difficulty with this, because there are not many who
have
>>mastered it - one outstanding example that comes to mind of someone
who
>>can't do it very well is Itzhak Perlman.
>>
>>Now back to song - I once saw on public television a recording
session with
>>John Denver and a well known operatic tenor doing a duet with one of
John's
>>popular songs. It sounded so out of place for the tenor to be using
his
>>cultivated operatic voice ("natural" to him of course) in that
context. It
>>didn't fit with the music, and it didn't fit with the ensemble.
There is a
>>place for every vocal style, and some styles can be misplaced as
well. I
>>haven't listened to Moni Ovadia, but the word "overwrought" could
very well
>>indicate a valid style not suitable for the context. Do I detect a
little
>>western european, classically trained, ethnocentricity about your
comments
>>vis a vis what to consider the standards for excellence?
>>
>>Matt Jaffey
>>
>>
>
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