Re: art and pop/folk singing

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

I'm sure the song you mean begins "Some Say Love"--I can't remember the 
actual title, but can easily look it up--and was recorded with, I believe, 
Placido Domingo.  And though I think it's a truly beautiful song and melody, 
I believe his (PD's) singing on it has often been mocked, I guess because to 
many ears it sounds ... well, overwrought--inappropriate for *this* song.

And I think that's something of a key--good singing, trained or untrained, 
sounds "natural"; if it sounds overwrought, it's probably not good.  
(There's a Duke Ellington link here somewhere.)  I don't personally care for 
grand opera either, but I used to disdain all trained voices as sounding 
phony, artificial, "overwrought," I guess (hell, Barbra *always* sounds 
overwrought, doesn't she?) until a lovely person and a lovely singer (in 
fact, as it happens, a former student of Isabelle's--but please let me keep 
her name to myself, OK?) taught me that that was my own inappropriate 
generalization formed from listening to *bad* "trained voice" singing.  I 
listened to Richard Tucker, I believe, singing "Shalom" from MILK AND 
HONEY--I'm not sure if my friend had me listen to it, or I just stumbled on 
it--and heard how a (no doubt marvelously?) trained voice could sing a pop 
song from a musical with heart and sincerity and warmth and flair on every 
syllable.

Just my (untrained) (but now better informed) sense -- Robert Cohen


>From: Matt Jaffey <mjaffey2 (at) mum(dot)edu>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Reply to Isabelle: re Clarinet
>Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 15:04:49
>
>To Dan Singer,
>
>Since you are a singer, and I'm not, I will assume that you know what you
>are talking about with respect to vocal tone production. However, I don't
>agree with what you said about clarinet playing:
>
><<Comparing the untrained voice to an operatic singer is like comparing the
>tone of the clarinet in klezmer to the clarinet in a symphony>> etc. etc.
>
>I'm a violinist, but I study with Kurt Bjorling, a fairly well known
>klezmer clarinetist. Kurt not only has the professional training to play in
>a symphony, he continues to take lessons from a member of the Chicago
>symphony. But guess what - he said that it took him a long time to develop
>the proper tone for klezmer on the clarinet. As for kvetches, krechts etc.
>there is quite an art to these, and room for a great deal of subtle 
>variation.
>
>I have experienced the same thing on the violin. Having spent the better
>part of my life cultivating methods of classical tone production and
>ornamentation, I found it quite a challenge, to develop an idiomatic
>klezmer violin sound. Actually, I think that most violinists who play
>klezmer have difficulty with this, because there are not many who have
>mastered it - one outstanding example that comes to mind of someone who
>can't do it very well is Itzhak Perlman.
>
>Now back to song - I once saw on public television a recording session with
>John Denver and a well known operatic tenor doing a duet with one of John's
>popular songs. It sounded so out of place for the tenor to be using his
>cultivated operatic voice ("natural" to him of course) in that context. It
>didn't fit with the music, and it didn't fit with the ensemble. There is a
>place for every vocal style, and some styles can be misplaced as well. I
>haven't listened to Moni Ovadia, but the word "overwrought" could very well
>indicate a valid style not suitable for the context. Do I detect a little
>western european, classically trained, ethnocentricity about your comments
>vis a vis what to consider the standards for excellence?
>
>Matt Jaffey
>
>

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