Re: promiscuous fusionizers

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

Here's an off-topic question inspired by Eliott's post and the
erudition of the participants on this list.

Can anyone provide me with an attribution from a generally accepted
source for the following quote:
?The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing?  (or a variation on the theme).
(Edmund Burke is often credited with the saying, but I have not been
able to find a source worthy of footnoting.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: eliott kahn <elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: promiscuous fusionizers


>I applaud Mr. Krakowski's stand for originality. In my estimation,
some of
>the greatest music in world history has been the result of an organic
>fusion of styles. Just to name a few: American Jazz, Salsa, and the
works
>of J.S. Bach and Handel--both of whom continually employed several
national
>styles.
>
>But, I would also issue a word of caution by reiterating the words,
>"organic fusion." One should be fully immersed in both (or more)
styles
>that one hopes to fuse, otherwise you may produce something that
deserves
>what an old composition professor of mine used to call "the eclectic
chair."
>
>Or in the words of Alexander Pope: "A little bit of knowledge is a
>dangerous thing/ Drink deep at rhe Pyrrhean spring."
>
>Eliott Kahn
>
>At 09:34 AM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Henry Sapoznik wrote:
>>>
>>> >I think klezmer suffers from both high artification and from the
>>> promiscuous
>>> >fusionizers who meld it with music forms they understand far
better than
>>> they
>>> >do klezmer.
>>> >IMnotsoHO...
>>>
>>> Very well said and right on target.   "Promiscuous fusionizers"
>>
>>H-mm.  So the creative non-conformist who expresses him/herself
witha lot of
>>personal and contemporary style, and not from an expected  position
based on
>>archived yiddishkayt-in-a-box nostalgia or novelty, is now musically
immoral,
>>too?  Interesting concept.
>>
>>In my experience, the word "promiscuous" is usually trotted out by
the envious
>>and the vengeful in an attempt to besmirch somebody's character
because they
>>are perceived as having too much or the wrong kind of close
interpersonal
>>contact.
>>I don't like it.
>>
>>Please, -- Kabalas, Alan Eder/Pesach Posse, Klezperanto, Neshama, et
al.,
>>keep making more great, original and  "promiscuous" music.
>>
>>Remember to practice safe sax.
>>
>>Wolf Krakowski
>>
>>
>>Kame'a Media
>>http://www.kamea.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> - I really
>>> like that phrase very much.   They are the ones filling up most of
the
>>> concert halls, because where else can such artifice go today?   I
can say
>>> that very little of it is really creative and I have been to the
last
>>> Ashkenaz Festival where some of the best of that was presented.
(There
>>> was one moment [in the concert of all new compositions] where the
noisy
>>> jazz in the all new compositions program was so annoying that I
truly felt
>>> like throwing a Molotov Cocktail just to stop that pure noise.  I
soon
>>> found out that many others were equally annoyed.)  There are
reasons why
>>> opera companies know that they can present the same operas year
after year,
>>> and theaters succeed in showing revivals and mothers keep on
baking the
>>> same meatloaf for generations or people continue listening to the
same
>>> classical musical repertory.   When people have refined a
grammatical form
>>> to become a classics in that genre, they respect and cherich it.
>>>
>>> Reyzl
>>>
>>> ----------
>>> From:  ganzl azoi freyl [SMTP:d6l (at) hotmail(dot)com]
>>> Sent:  Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:27 PM
>>> To:  World music from a Jewish slant
>>> Subject:  re: klez go classical
>>>
>>> i'm flattered to be described as "difficult to keep on a leash"
<smile>
>>> and 'course i don't mind being shredded and reassembled, but i
would prefer
>>> my tangents and asides be less central to your response, josh...
>>>
>>> my basic point (as distinctly opposed to your 'socratic summary')
has
>>> always
>>> been about *emphasis*, not exclusion (the first time "banning"
anything
>>> came
>>> up in this thread was when you put it in my mouth--please take it
right
>>> back
>>> out, 'kay?).  i'm in no way opposed to sitting in a concert hall
listening
>>> to klezmer (or tuvan 'throat singing' or stravinski for that
matter).  what
>>> i see as potentially dangerous is the concert hall becoming the
*only* or
>>> *primary* site for klezmer music.
>>>       the 'change and development' in music which i've said is
necessary
>>> can
>>> happen in any context.... *but* when it mainly happens in concert
halls it
>>> seems to me far more likely to lose its connections to other parts
of the
>>> culture it's rooted in than when the experimentation is happening
in a
>>> variety of venues (among which the concert hall should of course
be
>>> present,
>>> but not dominant).
>>>
>>> incidentally, you imply that there's a contradiction between
dancing to and
>>> listening to music.  if anything, i'd want to argue that the
opposite is
>>> true-- you just *can't* dance without paying serious attention to
the
>>> musicians; it's easy to sit and drift...  it's also worth
mentioning that
>>> venues with space to dance tend also to accomodate those who just
want to
>>> sit, while concert halls tend to frown upon dancing (with some
>>> exceptions--the 'in the fiddler's house' tour being the first to
occur to
>>> me).
>>>
>>> finally, it seems more than a bit disingenuous to describe
"listening" in
>>> the concert-hall sense as part of the traditional wedding context
of
>>> klezmer.  then again, it seems thoroughly unnecessary to appeal to
that
>>> context to establish something as worthwhile for klezmer in 1999
(yes, i do
>>> think that concert-hall type listening is worthwhile)
>>>    --unless, that is, you want to insist that all klezmer contexts
should
>>> include dancing, wine, and a rabbi (which is probably closer to my
position
>>> <wink>)--
>>>
>>> that's it for me....
>>> ideologically yours,
>>> zayt gezunt,
>>>
>>> daniel
>>>
>>> p.s. "hidden agenda"?  what's *hidden*?
>>>
>>> p.p.s.
>>> for reference, snipped for concision--
>>> josh wrote:
>>>
>>> >That "variety of directions" excludes the classical venue,
seemingly
>>> >because it doesn't allow for you to breakdance and also because
it
>>> >encourages the act of listening (in your former email, you refer
to >this
>>> >as the "sit-in-yer-seat experience").
>>> >
>>> >In spite of the fact that listening was a part of the original
context
>>> (the
>>> >wedding) in which klezmer music developed, and represents a
further
>>> >possibility for "change and development," it >is banned from your
list of
>>> >outlets which allow klezmer music to >evolve.
>>> >
>>> >Rather than antithesize the contradictions in your argument, I
would
>>> >rather manipulate them into a synthesized Socratic summary, using
>>>
>>> >In spite of actually sympathizing with some of your sentiments,
Dan,
>>> >it's hard to resist uncovering a hidden agenda in your ideology.
Josh
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________
>>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>----------------------
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>