Re: Jews and Christmas music

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

Peter,

Perhaps Wolf's response (not that he can't speak for himself) is that
Jews come from a tradition in which words matter.  Community matters
too.  Non-Jews do not count toward a minyan (quorum for services).
Perhaps cantors on the list would comment on the importance (or lack
thereof?) of knowing the meaning of the text in order to fulfill the
responsibility of being a shaliah tzibur (representative of the
community).

Bob

P.S.  off the topic of "Jewish" music per se
I think that I can often tell when a singer has thought about the
meaning of a Gershwin or Sondheim song and it matters to me.  Perhaps
Yiddishists in the group can also tell when someone is singing
(interpreting) the Yiddish song (with a sensitivity to the lyrics) or
mouthing the words (singing phonetically with no idea of its meaning).
I think that I would be more likely to be moved by a performance of a
piece that was relevant to the performer than by one that was
irrelevant to them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Hollo <raven (at) fourplay(dot)com(dot)au>
To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Thursday, December 17, 1998 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: Jews and Christmas music


>Wolf,
>Thanks for the response, and I am very sorry for calling you a bigot.
>However, I still disagree.
>> > (which I don't believe in anyway), or anything. It's just the
music.
>> >
>> This is unbelievable, coming from an artist. It has absolutely
>> everything to do with the words and the faith they profess.  Are
you
>> saying, "It's just sound, man"?  It's time to change the bongwater.
>
>Well since I just accused you of being bigoted, ok fair enough. But
I'll
>have you know I don't use drugs of any kind and never will.
>
>I disagree with you entirely here. "Coming from an artist"? Well,
yes,
>but how about coming from an atheist? No music I play, no musical
>experience has for me any sort of spiritual aspect to it, and I don't
>think this in any way shallows the experience I have. (I don't mean
to
>imply that you suggest it does...) To continue...
>
>As a musician (yes!) I wouldn't possibly consider not playing Faure's
>Requiem (to overuse my own example) because it is Christian music. I
>don't believe that the power of that music has ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to
do
>with what the words are about (to me at least), whether or not the
>person who wrote it did so out of deep faith. It's truly wonderful
music
>which I appreciate *as* an artist, and as a human being, whatever the
>words are about. Most of the music I listen to has no words to it,
and I
>love it much more than, I would imagine, much cantorial singing which
>comes deep from the faith and the heart of the singer.
>
>> Very sloppy thinking.  The whole deal is the feeling one puts into
the
>> words and the notes.  If this feeling comes from a place of
>> understanding and deep faith, it might result in a beautiful moving
>> experience for everyone.  If it is just words (the singer neither
>> understands nor feels) and notes, its a waste of time and the
audience
>> has been ripped off.
>
>Not at all. Does that mean that as an atheist, when I play any music
the
>words of which happen to be of a religious nature (for the sake of
>argument Jewish since I am a Jew) the audience is "ripped off", and
has
>a cheapened experience because I'm an atheist? Hardly. Clearly, to
me,
>one does not need to even understand what the words mean in something
>like a Requiem to feel the music's emotive power. Could I then be
part
>of a performance of the second movement of Ravel's Piano Concerto (to
>name another piece of music I find transendentally beautiful) and not
>waste the same audience's time? This is just nonsense I'm afraid
>(perhaps I've misinterpreted you?) The music is what is important to
me,
>and these two pieces of music have a similar impact on me even though
>one has no words at all, and the other has words which when
translated
>are about something that is doubly irrelevant to me - as a Jew and as
an
>atheist.
>
>Perhaps we should agree to disagree, but "sloppy thinking"? I think
not!
>Best,
>Peter.
>--
>Peter Hollo  raven (at) fourplay(dot)com(dot)au
http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html
>           FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet
>             http://www.fourplay.com.au
>"Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and
>your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.
>