Re: Rule, Britannia...

[Alex Lubet <lubet001...>]

You're more generous than I am, E.  There are, however, times when 
Christians who enter into disputations with Jews attempt to 'prove' the 
truth of their faith, reading prophecies Jews don't read, by using OT 
texts.  There are sites on the web that specifically prep Jews for such 
arguments with, for example, Jews for Jesus, who I think it is fair to say 
have an agenda.

At 11:14 AM 12/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:

> >
> >1)  Handel's oratorio Messiah was composed with an overtly Christian
> >agenda.  Then and now, certain Christians have used their readings of OT
> >texts to further their own agendas to the detriment of Jews.
>
>I was always under the impression that Christians used prophets like 
>Isaiah to foretell the coming of Jesus Christ. I see no "agenda" in this, 
>Alex, short of one faith building upon the texts of an earlier one.
>
>
>
> >4)  There are many reasons OT themes might be used in oratorios.  They
> >were conceived as popular, commercial entertainment and competed with
> >Italian opera.  Theatrical potential is one possibility, an elegant
> >tradition of OT English via the King James Bible another.  Chosenness is
> >not one I've heard.  If there's evidence of any Jewish role in British
> >popular entertainment in the early 18th century, I'd be interested in what
> >it was.
>
>The oratorio originated in the "oratory" next to a certain church in late 
>16th, early 17th century Rome. They were specifically performed during 
>Lent, when Roman Catholics were forbidden to attend the opera. I do not 
>know if a proclivity for Old Testament texts began during this time, I do 
>know, however, that Carissimi's JEPTHA was an oratorio from the early 17th 
>century. I would be curious if there was an Italian tradition that used 
>Old Testament texts for oratorios. If so, Handel might have picked it up 
>during his years in Italy.


I was referring specifically to Handel's switch from Italian opera to 
English oratorio when he shifted his base of operations, not to the 
oratorio in general, about which I think you are correct.




>Chag sameach,
>
>Eliott Kahn
>
>

Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music
Adjunct Professor of American and Jewish Studies
University of Minnesota
100 Ferguson Hall
Minneapolis, MN 55455
612 624-7840 (o)
612 699-1097 (h)
612 624-8001  ATTN:  Alex Lubet (FAX)

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