Re: Rule, Britannia...

[Alex J. Lubet <lubet001...>]

Hard to know how to respond to this or even whether to.  You either
obviously know that my reference is to Handel's oratorio, in which case
your comeback is utterly bizarre or you don't know which would be sad,
particularly since you appear to agree with my point although for reasons
based on nothing more than speculation.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering but:

1)  Handel's oratorio Messiah was composed with an overtly Christian
agenda.  Then and now, certain Christians have used their readings of OT
texts to further their own agendas to the detriment of Jews.

2)  18th British readings who Jews were vastly differed between OT Jews
and their contemporaries.  If Handel's oratorios don't demonstrate that,
try some metaphysical poetry from the previous century.

3)  The various Protestant movements that founded the US incorporated
notions of choseness and Zion in ways that European churches did not.
Cotton Mather even prayed in a kipa.  If either the Catholic Church  of
the C of E (which regarded itself as a Catholic rather than a Protestant
Church then and to some extent now) made explicit references to chosenness
analogous to Jewish theology, I'd be genuinely interested to learn what
they are.

4)  There are many reasons OT themes might be used in oratorios.  They
were conceived as popular, commercial entertainment and competed with
Italian opera.  Theatrical potential is one possibility, an elegant
tradition of OT English via the King James Bible another.  Chosenness is
not one I've heard.  If there's evidence of any Jewish role in British
popular entertainment in the early 18th century, I'd be interested in what
it was.



Alex Jacobowitz wrote:

> B"H Munich
>
> --- Alex Lubet <lubet001 (at) umn(dot)edu> wrote:
> > Whoa!  Who ever said the message of Messiah wasn't
> > overtly Christian?
>
> G-d, actually.
>
>  >>Of course it is,
>
> G-d might disagree with you there.
>
>  and for those who believe that
> > Christian prophecy is imbedded
> > in Tanach, using only Tanach texts can be a way of
> > making a Christian
> > point.
>
> with lots of careful editing and tweaking, sure.
>
>  There were a number of Protestant movements
> > in Britain and the
> > colonies that identified strongly with the
> > Israelites.
>
> I haven´t read anyone here discussing the English
> fashion of that time - reading the English nation
> into the position of the Israelites. After all,
> the honor of the Jews as G-d´s "Chosen People" has
> been usurped again and again through history. The
> Catholic Church first proclaimed that the Jews´
> contract with G-d was no longer valid; then Church
> arrogated that it was now "the Chosen People".
>
> And then when C of E (Church of England) broke with
> the Catholics, they then decided that THEY were G-d´s
> chosen people. So in my opinion, Handel´s writing O.T.
> oratorios (Judas Maccabeus or anything else) had to do
> with the English fashion of congratulating themselves
> on becoming "Chosen" by G-d - little to do with Jews
> filling the house.
>
> Alex Jacobowitz
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>

--
Alex Lubet, Ph. D.
Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Music and Jewish Studies
Adjunct Professor of American Studies
University of Minnesota
2106 4th St. S
Minneapolis, MN 55455
612 624-7840 612 624-8001 (fax)


---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+