Re: borrowed music

[ro <ro...>]

Joel Bresler wrote:
> Roger Reid wrote:
> >At that time,
> (early 12th Century)
> >Christians knew no Hebrew and Jews knew no Gregorian Chant.
> 
> This seems a pretty broad statement. Can any other listers weigh in on 
> whether this were indeed the case?

My source for that statement, specifically to the early 1100's CE,
was Rabbi Jerry Schwartzbart, the curator/conservator/librarian
at the JTS Rare Book Room
who was showing us this particular doument, as well as some other
remarkable items (such as a shaila to a regional rabbi from a local
community about a situation which was answered by the Rambam.  You
get a chill sitting there looking at a piece of paper with Maimonedes
signature.

He noted that later Hebrew was considered a needed skill in the Church,
and in fact we saw the evidence in a Hebrew sefer of Tehillim from
the late 1500's, with commentary on a certain psalm that explained
why Jesus could not have been the messiah.  The Church censor who
lined it out signed his name to the "approved" version with heresy
removed.  However, the ink he used to line out the "heresy" didn't
last as well as the ink used to print the book, which is why we know
what was removed.

Rabbi Schwartzbart is in the business of knowing this kind of stuff
because he needs to understand things in historical context.  He
most cenrtainly did NOT say thet Church scholars never knew Hebrew,
just that they did not know it at that point in time.




> 
> Shabbat shalom,
> 
> Joel
> 
> At 10:58 AM 5/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
> >Forgive me if someone mentioned this already in the "if its borrowed,
> >is it Jewish" and I missed it.
> >
> >Last night I had the privelge to visit the Rare Book Room at the JTS -
> >not just the public exhibits.  Rather, Rabbi Jerry Schwartzbart brought
> >us into the reading room and pulled some items out of the vault.
> >
> >One item from the Cairo Genizah was a poem written out in Hebrew.
> >But there were other marks as well, which I recognized as music
> >notation.  It turned out to be notation for Gregorian Chant.
> >
> >At a later date, the Church scholars will consider Hebrew a useful
> >skill, but this scrap was from the 12th century.  At that time,
> >Christians knew no Hebrew and Jews knew no Gregorian Chant.
> >
> >The solution to the mystery lies in the background of the one who
> >wrote out the poem and its tune.   He was Ovadyah HaGer, who
> >was born Johannes, the second son of a Norman lord.  Gentile rules
> >of inhertance at that time gave everything to the eldest son, so
> >whle his big brother went into battle as a night, Johannes got
> >shipped of to the monastary to become a priest.
> >
> >In the midst of the Crusade, in 1102, Johannes became Ovadyah HaGer
> >when he converted and moved to the area Northern Israel.
> >
> >There are recordings of his works.
> >
> >So theres a borrowing story for you!
> >
> >Shabbat shalom -
> >roger
> >
> >--
> >
> >r l reid        ro (at) panix(dot)com
> >
> 
> 
> 
> Joel Bresler
> 250 E. Emerson Rd.
> Lexington, MA 02420 USA
> 
> Home Office:    781-862-4104
> FAX:            781-862-0498
> Email:          jbresler (at) ma(dot)ultranet(dot)com
> 
> 


-- 
r l reid        ro (at) panix(dot)com

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