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Re: Ipcha Mistabra
- From: L_Cahan <L_Cahan...>
- Subject: Re: Ipcha Mistabra
- Date: Fri 04 May 2001 20.04 (GMT)
Thanks. That was interesting and edifying. :-)
Lorele
shirona wrote:
> OK Lorele, I must honor the challenge. But I'm no linguist, and in
> my previous posting it was just meant as a little tease for Robert...
> Ipcha Mistabra is an old fashioned expression used in Israel. It
> probably has something to do with studying the Talmud. Aramaic is
> close to Hebrew, with many of the same roots. Ipcha, or Hipcha, is
> from the root Hey, Fay, Chaf. Hafooch in Hebrew means upside down or
> inverted. Hahefech means the opposite, the contrary. Mistabra is
> related to the word Mistaber, which means - "probably", "turns out to
> be", or "it seems that...". Put the two together and you get
> something like - "turns out to be the opposite of what you are
> saying". Shabbat Shalom,Shirona - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> * * * Singer / Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music * * *
> www.shirona.com Listen to Shirona's music on:
> www.mp3.com/shirona
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - -
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:Lori Cahan-Simon
> To: World music from a Jewish slant
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:39 PM
> Subject: Ipcha Mistabra
>
> >
> >
> > Hey Shirona, I have no clue what "Ipcha Mistabra" means
> > and I have no Aramaic-English dictionary. Care to
> > elucidate?
> > Lorele
> >
> > Marvin wrote:
> >
> > > Smetena used melodies from folk music. Hatikvah probably
> > > used the same resource.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:shirona
> > > To: World music from a Jewish slant
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:04 PM
> > > Subject: Is "Hatikvah" Jewish?
> > > A few years ago I attended a seminar on the
> > > origins of "Jewish Music", and one of the
> > > examples studied was our very own Hatikvah.
> > > Most people think that the melody was taken
> > > from Smetana's "Moldava" - which already
> > > implies that it was "shnorered" from another
> > > (non Jewish...) source. However - according to
> > > some musicologists, the melody for Hatikvah can
> > > be traced to a Romanian horse-and-buggy song.
> > > The same tune that might have influenced
> > > Smetana... But either way - our own National
> > > Anthem is not Jewish. So what kind of excuses
> > > do we need to come up with to justify this? How
> > > can we make any claims at all - on what Jewish
> > > music is or isn't? Wandering for two thousand
> > > years - we "shnorered" from whatever culture we
> > > lived with at the time, mixed it with what we
> > > already had, moved to other countries - and the
> > > process goes on and on. If anything - we were
> > > probably the most effective proponents of
> > > "cultural cross-pollination" around. But what
> > > difference does all this make? Does it really
> > > matter if the music we use was genuinely
> > > "created" by "us", or somehow borrowed,
> > > intentionally or unintentionally, from another
> > > source? Is it important to hang on to those
> > > definitions? Music is music... Traditions,
> > > taste and styles change and evolve with time.
> > > OK Robert... I'm now waiting for your "Ipcha
> > > Mistabra" response. If you don't know what
> > > that means - it's in Aramaic. Look it up.
> > > Shirona - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > * * * Singer / Songwriter and Teacher of
> > > Jewish Music * * *
> > > www.shirona.com Listen to
> > > Shirona's music on:
> > > www.mp3.com/shirona
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > >