Re: Ipcha Mistabra

[L_Cahan <L_Cahan...>]

Thanks.  That was interesting and edifying.  :-)
Loreel

shirona wrote:

>  OK Lorele,  I must honor the challenge.  But I'm no linguist, and in
> my previous posting it was just meant as a little tease for
> Robert... Ipcha Mistabra is an old fashioned expression used in
> Israel. It probably has something to do with studying the
> Talmud. Aramaic is close to Hebrew, with many of the same roots.
> Ipcha, or Hipcha, is from the root Hey, Fay, Chaf.  Hafooch in Hebrew
> means upside down or inverted.  Hahefech means the opposite, the
> contrary. Mistabra is related to the word Mistaber, which means -
> "probably", "turns out to be", or "it seems that...".  Put the two
> together and you get something like - "turns out to be the opposite of
> what you are saying". Shabbat Shalom,Shirona     - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> * * *  Singer / Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music * * *
>           www.shirona.com           Listen to Shirona's music on:
>           www.mp3.com/shirona
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - -
>
>      ----- Original Message -----
>      From: Lori Cahan-Simon
>      To: World music from a Jewish slant
>      Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:39 PM
>      Subject: Ipcha Mistabra
>
>
>     >
>     >
>     > Hey Shirona, I have no clue what "Ipcha Mistabra" means
>     > and I have no Aramaic-English dictionary.  Care to
>     > elucidate?
>     > Lorele
>     >
>     > Marvin wrote:
>     >
>     > > Smetena used melodies from folk music.  Hatikvah probably
>     > > used the same resource.
>     > >
>     > >      ----- Original Message -----
>     > >      From:shirona
>     > >      To: World music from a Jewish slant
>     > >      Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:04 PM
>     > >      Subject: Is "Hatikvah" Jewish?
>     > >       A few years ago I attended a seminar on the
>     > >      origins of "Jewish Music", and one of the
>     > >      examples studied was our very own Hatikvah.
>     > >      Most people think that the melody was taken
>     > >      from Smetana's "Moldava" - which already
>     > >      implies that it was "shnorered" from another
>     > >      (non Jewish...) source.  However - according to
>     > >      some musicologists, the melody for Hatikvah can
>     > >      be traced to a Romanian horse-and-buggy song.
>     > >      The same tune that might have influenced
>     > >      Smetana...  But either way - our own National
>     > >      Anthem is not Jewish.  So what kind of excuses
>     > >      do we need to come up with to justify this? How
>     > >      can we make any claims at all - on what Jewish
>     > >      music is or isn't?  Wandering for two thousand
>     > >      years - we "shnorered" from whatever culture we
>     > >      lived with at the time, mixed it with what we
>     > >      already had, moved to other countries - and the
>     > >      process goes on and on.  If anything - we were
>     > >      probably the most effective proponents of
>     > >      "cultural cross-pollination" around. But what
>     > >      difference does all this make?  Does it really
>     > >      matter if the music we use was genuinely
>     > >      "created" by "us", or somehow borrowed,
>     > >      intentionally or unintentionally, from another
>     > >      source? Is it important to hang on to those
>     > >      definitions?  Music is music...  Traditions,
>     > >      taste and styles change and evolve with time.
>     > >      OK Robert... I'm now waiting for your "Ipcha
>     > >      Mistabra" response.  If you don't know what
>     > >      that means - it's in Aramaic.  Look it up.
>     > >      Shirona - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>     > >      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>     > >      * * *  Singer / Songwriter and Teacher of
>     > >      Jewish Music * * *
>     > >                www.shirona.com           Listen to
>     > >      Shirona's music on:
>     > >                www.mp3.com/shirona
>     > >      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>     > >      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>     > >