Re: Borrowing church melodies

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

Simon wrote:

>Isn't that somwhat like putting butter on a piece Kosher meat, it was
>"Jewish" , but it "Ain't Jewish no more!"

You mean like at a "kosher style" restaurant?

Attn.  Left Hand:  Please get in touch with Right Hand.

Other than that, though, Simon's stretching to the limits of the 
possibilities of borrowing melodies (a favorite subject) is intriguing and 
raises some good questions.  Keep in mind, though, that in Smyrna, I think 
it was, a few centuries ago (am not home; can document very specifically if 
desired), Jews would actually visit churches prior to the High Holidays to 
listen for, and swipe, melodies that moved them spiritually, to which they 
would then sing some of the High Holiday prayers.  (More likely the Kedusha, 
though, than Kol Nidre ...)  And this received rabbinical sanction 
(approval), I believe--though, certainly, (many) other rabbis in other times 
and places disapproved (strongly) of the whole practice, not even 
specifically w/ respect to Christian melodies.

Keep in mind, too:  the High Holidays Ma'ariv "Bor'chu" *does* derive from a 
church (Te Deum) melody.

And the (universally sung) traditional melody to "Ma'oz Tsur" is, I believe, 
universally accepted to have been adapted from two (or maybe three) German 
folk/popular melodies, one of which was adopted by Martin Luther (a great 
friend of the Jews ...) as the first hymn of the Lutheran church.

So we're singing some church melodies liturgically even if we don't realize 
it.  Of course, some rabbinical opinions/rulings on borrowing melodies for 
prayer specifically say that it's OK as long as the kahal (congregation) 
doesn't recognize that it's a borrowing!--i.e., isn't familiar with the 
original.

Myself, I've always thought "Oh Come Oh Come Emmanuel" is a sublime melody 
and makes a beautiful Adon Olam at Xmas time--though even some liberal 
havurahniks found that disquieting.

--Robert Cohen

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