RE: G-d un doss kelbl = "Dona, dona"

[Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl...>]

Christian,

I took responsibility for my mistake and even said that I made it once 
before.

>It's also not very productive to make all the other stupid guys 
responsible
>for your mistakes. One more time, this list is not a scholar's list. Try 
to
>respect other people, and they will respect you.

Sorry Christian.   Nothing that I wrote implied that if you are not a 
scholar, you are stupid.   No, this is not a scholars mailing list, but 
people ask scholarly questions all the time.  If this list is to deal with 
scholarly questions and hopefully come up with historically correct 
answers, then there is no reason in the world why non-scholars should not 
learn how to go about getting correct answers.  They can at least learn 
what methods to avoid.  Just because something sounds plausible, doesn't 
make it true.  There used be many more Yiddish music scholars on this list 
two years ago, who decided to unsubscribe because they watched ill-informed 
people fiercely argue with scholars, leaving everyone else on the list at a 
loss as to which answer was right.  These scholars have refused to 
re-subscribe.  Other Yiddish scholars decided not waste time responding 
because there are always going to be some uninformed people who will argue 
for the undisciplined way of doing things.  If that is not bad enough, if a 
scholar takes the trouble to comment on this problem, you get comments like 
Christian's saying that this is not a scholars' list.  How is this an 
answer?  You have to decide what you want.  You want to reach the correct 
answer or you want to have fun hypothesizing from your armchair or argue, 
e.g., that standard Yiddish transliteration is unimportant.  It's an either 
or question.  I propose to you that learning how to get the right 
information is much more efficient and not that much less fun.

Marvin,

If you re-read what I wrote, you will see that I made no comments 
whatsoever about people presenting their opinions, layman or otherwise. 
 Opinions are opinions and scholars opinion incorrectly all the time.  What 
I wrote was that this kind of etymological hypothesizing, saying "this word 
sounds like some other word in another language", is usually unproductive. 
 It is as unproductive for linguists as it is for laymen.  It's one thing 
if you are comparing words of 2 languages in the same or contiguous 
geographic territory.  Asking if there is a connection between "dona" and 
"adonay" is intriguing, but if you are going to compare Yiddish and Spanish 
words, you know you have gone far afield.  It means that it's time to go to 
the sources and check all the facts that are already known with certainty. 
 I am just very sensitive to it because two graduate students in our 
linguistics department used to drive us all crazy overusing this same 
method.  Believe me, it isn't one shred less annoying when a scholar does 
it.

The other point I was making and would like to continue making is that 
there are excellent sources for finding out information about Yiddish 
songs, so that no one has to be left to guessing.  Guessing is what we will 
have to do 200 years from now, but we are not at that point yet.  The 
people who know the answers from the primary sources are still around and 
highly accessible.  If this were a question about English or American 
music, everyone here would know what to do.  American elementary education 
has prepared everyone on how to use basic resources - dictionaries, 
encyclopedias, articles, and books.  Using a printed source or asking an 
expert has become par course for everyone and is not limited to scholars. 
 The same sequence of steps should apply to Yiddish music and I hope 
everyone becomes comfortable with them.

Since there is no general encyclopedia of Yiddish music at this time 
(although this information would have been found in the Yiddish-language 
Encyclopedia of Yiddish Theater), you know to ask your librarian, and the 
librarian in this case is YIVO, --online, in person, or by phone.  If it 
isn't too complicated, they will look up the information for you, or name a 
local book or two for you to check, or else, give you the name of a person 
to speak to at YIVO or elsewhere.  The person who knows the answers to all 
questions on Yiddish songs is ethnomusicologist Chana/Eleanor Mlotek, 
YIVO's music archivist and researcher.  The little historical accounts at 
the beginning of each song in her many books are very helpful and reliable. 
 If they are not enough, you can write, e-mail, or call her at YIVO or at 
the Yiddish Forwards, where she has been writing a music column for 30+ 
years.   The overwhelming number of people who write to Chana/Eleanor 
Mlotek with questions about music at either location are plain folk.  In 
fact, her music column in the Forverts consists of her responses to 
inquiries from readers around the world. (The other 2 weeks of every month, 
the column's focus is on Yiddish poetry or Yiddish writers.)  Everyone is 
invited to send in music queries and you don't necessarily need to write in 
Yiddish.  If you want to perform Yiddish music, these are the kinds of 
basic resource information everyone needs to know about.  As long as Chana 
Mlotek is around, use her.   She does work at YIVO part time and I am sorry 
I don't have her schedule at hand.  (She wasn't in yesterday and the temp 
receptionist said she couldn't get me her schedule.  There is no answer at 
her home phone.)  But e-mail works anytime.

YIVO Institute for Jewish Research
The Center for Jewish History
15 West 16th Street
New York, NY 10011-6301
Main Number (212) 246-6080
Fax: (212) 292-1892
General mail: yivomail (at) yivo(dot)cjh(dot)org

Chana Mlotek
Music Archivist (P/T)
(212) 246-6080, ext. 6119
cmlotek (at) yivo(dot)cjh(dot)org

or:
Chana Mlotek
They Yiddish Forverts
45 East 33 Street
New York, NY   10016

Chana is the best source, but there are sources as well.  I will leave that 
for another time.


Gut vokh,

Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky




----------
From:  khupe (at) khupe(dot)de [SMTP:khupe (at) khupe(dot)de]
Sent:  Saturday, February 24, 2001 7:35 AM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant
Subject:  Re: G-d un doss kelbl

Reyzl wrote:
>I then write quickly because I want this
issue out of my overstuffed computer.  There are so many uninformed people
on this list and they can't tell the difference between what is good and
bad hypothesizing.  They pick up all kinds of bad seeds and bad methodology 
this way.  Guessing by looking at similar words in other languages should
really be done by trained linguists who always keep cultural contexts in
mind.  It is also usually unproductive.<

It's also not very productive to make all the other stupid guys responsible
for your mistakes. One more time, this list is not a scholar's list. Try to
respect other people, and they will respect you.

Christian Dawid



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