Re: Kol Isha: Theology and Halakha

[wiener <wiener...>]

I don't understand your posts as denigrating the Conservative movement.  Rather 
I understand you to be misunderstanding the Conservative movement.

I never knew Isaac Klein.  Although I too know members of his family I do not 
see the relevance of their affiliations.  (I believe that here too you are 
referring to the UTJ and not "Orthodox" affiliation.  But I also would not see 
the relevance of family members affiliating with the Reform movement, or, for 
that matter, another religion.) As far as I know, Isaac Klein never 
disassociated with JTS.  Nor did JTS disassociate with him.  In fact, the Guide 
to which I referred received a second 1992 copyright from JTS.  In that 
edition, the blurb begins, "This volume is a detailed and comprehensive guide 
to Jewish practice for home and synagogue written in the spirit of the 
Conservative movement.  The compilation is the result of a project conceived in 
1960 by Dr. Louis Finkelstein, then Chancellor of The Jewish Theological 
Seminary, the purpose of which was to produce authoritative halakhic studies 
for the training of conservative rabbis."  In my synagogue, this volume is 
given to all b'nai and b'not mitzvah.

I respect David Weiss Halivni ((a former professor at JTS) (and know members of 
his family too).  I do not know if he ever sat on the Law Committee, but I am 
confident that he never played an administrative role or a role as a 
spokesperson for the Conservative movement (as Joel Roth did and does).

The book (Conservative Judaism) by Neil Gillman (a current JTS associate 
professor) from which I quoted bears a 1993 copyright.  I believe that he would 
have written the same words today.

As I pointed out, with examples, it is not true about the Conservative movement 
that "it has to do what it's [sic] constituents think right."  I don't know of 
polling to determine what Conservative Jews think, but if you read Conservative 
responsa I repeat that I do not think you would find reference to what its 
"constituents think right" and that many of the positions of Conservative 
Judaism are not popular ones.  To expand on my prior comments, Klein's work 
devotes separate chapters to Tohorat Hamishpahah and The Miqweh.  However, it 
is true that there is no mention in its index of Kol Ishah.  I do not know when 
that issue whether/when that issue was formally resolved by Conservative 
Judaism.  I would guess that occurred during consideration of the mehitzah, but 
perhaps a more learned list member can fill us in.

(Baby bath time.)

Bob
    -----Original Message-----
    From: TROMBAEDU (at) aol(dot)com <TROMBAEDU (at) aol(dot)com>
    To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
    Date: Monday, February 19, 2001 4:08 PM
    Subject: Re: Kol Isha: Theology and Halakha
    
    
    In a message dated 2/19/01 12:17:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
    wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com writes: 
    
    
    
        As you might well know, the decision about women cantors (as Sh'lihot 
        Tsibur) was far more complex halakhically than the decision about women 
        rabbis.  But I ask you not to condemn the conclusion without having 
read 
        the responsum. 
        
        I do agree that the Conservative Movement has been more ready to 
reconsider 
        issues raised using the Halakhic Process than have the Orthodox.  But 
        that's why some Jews choose to be Conservative Jews. 
        
        
    
    
    Please do not understand my posts as denigrating the Conservative movement 
in 
    any way. I never knew Isaac Klein, but I have had extensive contact with 
    members of his family, many of whom will no longer affiliate themselves 
with 
    JTS. In addition, I am familiar with the work of David Weiss Halivni. In 
    fact, I have played at the UTJ. Part of the reason for Weiss Halivni's 
    departure from JTS, as well as the Klein's disassociating with the 
movement, 
    is precisely because Rabbi Roth and others have not followed the 
    jurisprudential procedure as was laid down Finkelstein and others. In all 
    fairness, I do not know anything more about Rabbi Gillman then what you 
    quoted, but I think my response to his quote only becomes more poignant if 
it 
    true that he would support the work of the current Law committee. I say 
this 
    only to observe what I know to be so. I have no objection to JTS, per se, 
as 
    it has to do what it's constituents think right. But I do not think that 
the 
    Halachic process has been handled in the same manner in the last twenty 
years 
    as it was before that. When I speak of Jewish Jurisprudence and Orthodoxy, 
it 
    is only because the Orthodox movement is taking on the chin on this list 
over 
    Kol Isha. 
    
    Kol Tuv, 
    
    Jordan