RE: lyrics question: iz + geven

[Kevin Cohen <kevin...>]

so, let's if i've got it:

mir iz shiker geven 'i was drunk'
du bist a naar geven 'you were a fool'
zayn fon iz libshaft geven 'his banner was love'
mir zenen soldaten geven 'we were soldiers'
zey zenen bekhen fun bromfn 'they were rivers of whiskey'

kevin

-----Original Message-----
From:   Dick Rosenberg [SMTP:drosenberg (at) dht(dot)com]
Sent:   Monday, March 30, 1998 1:52 PM
To:     World music from a Jewish slant.
Subject:        RE: lyrics question: iz + geven

Minor nit. "Iz geven" is the past tense of "to be". "zenen" is the first
person plural ("mir zenen feylekh" - we are happy)
Dick

>----------
>From:  Kevin Cohen[SMTP:kevin (at) cmhcsys(dot)com]
>Sent:  Monday, March 30, 1998 1:43 PM
>To:    World music from a Jewish slant.
>Subject:       RE: lyrics question: iz + geven
>
>yes, i was referring to "iz" when i asked about 'a form of zayn,' or whatever
>it was that i said.
>
>from dick's message, i take it that iz + zenen is just the past tense of the
>verb 'to be.'   makes sense-- thanks, dick.
>
>kevin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:  Dick Rosenberg [SMTP:drosenberg (at) dht(dot)com]
>Sent:  Monday, March 30, 1998 11:35 AM
>To:    World music from a Jewish slant.
>Subject:       RE: lyrics question: iz + geven
>
>Jennifer,
>
>True, but the original passage was
>
>>zayn fon iber mir iz libshaft geven 'his banner over me was love'
>
>and you are correct about the "zayn" that begins the passage being the
>possessive pronoun. However, the "iz" that is the fifth word is the
>third person singular form of the verb which is known by its infinitive
>"zayn" (as in "zu zayn", to be). If that is the "zayn" that Kevin is
>referring to when he asks
>
>>can anyone help me understand what it means to use a form of "zayn"
>>>followed
>by "geven"?  e.g., in the klezmatics song "honikzaft",
>
>then his question is valid (as is, hopefully, my answer)
>
>>From my college German (which is where I get most of my Yiddish), "iz
>>geveyn" would be analagous to the German "ist gewesen", which is a form
>>of the past tense of "to be". So (in the third person), "iz" translates
>>to "is" and "iz geveyn" translates to "was".
>
>>If I am mistaken, would somebody more knowledgable in pure Yiddish
>>please correct me.
>
>Dick Rosenberg (closet linguist)
>
>Dick
>
>>----------
>>From:         Jennifer R. Goodman[SMTP:jenifer (at) unix(dot)tamu(dot)edu]
>>Sent:         Monday, March 30, 1998 11:24 AM
>>To:   World music from a Jewish slant.
>>Subject:      Re: lyrics question: iz + geven
>>
>>Kevin -
>>
>>"Zayn" in the passage you quote is not part of the verb,
>>it's the possessive pronoun (or adjective?) "His." "Zayn
>>fon" is "his banner."
>>
>>Jenny Goodman
>>
>>
>
>
>

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