[HANASHIR:11151] Re: HANASHIR digest 1501

[Shirona <shirona...>]

Thank you Ellen!! You nailed the issue.  I started to compose a very similar
message, and gave up... I thought I was coming across as too harsh.    I
agree with every word you said and would like to join in the effort of
"raising the bar".  I've seen too many situations where an entire
congregation was chatting while the Rabbi was speaking - so it's certainly
not only an "unruly kid" issue.

Last week I happened to be talking with one of the custodians in the
Synagogue where I teach, who is Catholic, and sends his children to Catholic
school.  His main issue was the overall "bad behavior" of our children in
Religious school... (and I thought they were "good" compared with the kids
in my previous school...)   He was truly mystified. "Children in Catholic
school have respect for the teachers and for the institution"  - he said. I
found myself apologizing for "our people"...  I've never been to a Christian
service, but somehow I "imagine" that people sit very quietly in church...
kids and all...

It really comes down to good old fashioned manners!

Shirona
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
 Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
Listen to my music at www.mp3.com/shirona
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellen Allard" <ellen (at) peterandellen(dot)com>
To: <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:28 AM
Subject: [HANASHIR:11149] Re: HANASHIR digest 1501


> The issue that Linda raises (regarding unruly children at services) is one
> that I am confronted with regularly. As a Tot Shabbat leader, and as a
> children's concert performer, I have very definite opinions about this.
>
> There are a number of ways to approach the unruly child problem. I think
the
> first approach is to try and get your message across without directly
> confronting the child or the parents. Therefore, I agree wholeheartedly
with
> Rabbi Weilheimer's response. One might say it is a sort of
"under-the-radar"
> way of getting the message across. And I've seen that tactic work
> effectively. It gives a message to the parents and the children, without
> speaking to them directly.
>
> However, having said that, if it doesn't work, another effective method is
> to slowly walk to the child, during a part of the service that you are
able
> to do so, bend down to his/her level, look him right in the eyes, and
> quietly tell him that his loud voice is interrupting your work on the
pulpit
> (or making it hard for you to help the other people with their
prayers....or
> whatever you want to say that will explain your difficulties) and that you
> need him to be quiet during the service. This might or might not annoy the
> parents, but that is another issue.
>
> The third thing I'd like to say is that, after leading Tot Shabbat
services
> for many years, and after performing for large groups of children (and
> sometimes parents), I don't understand why people want to coddle parents.
> There are SO many parents who are so lenient with their children. Parents
> think nothing of allowing a child to misbehave, to act out-of-line during
a
> service or a concert. I know there is concern about "losing" congregants.
> But frankly folks, why haven't we raised the bar when it comes to how
people
> behave? My suggestion is that you take the parents aside privately and
> explain the situation to them. Gently but firmly. Unless the child has an
> actual problem (autistic, for example) and even then, there has to be some
> awareness on the part of the parents in terms of how the childs' behavior
is
> affecting others, then you have every right, as a leader of your
> congregation, to confront the parents and let them know that their child's
> behavior is unacceptable. We are leaders, not just songleaders, but people
> leaders and we must help others understand, by modeling and by explanation
> when necessary, that they are part of a bigger whole, that their behavior
> matters. It is unfortunate that this is the case. But it is endemic across
> our society. I see it during Tot Shabbat services, and my husband and I
see
> it CONSTANTLY during our concerts. This complaint is echoed by other early
> childhood professionals across the country. I know it might sound harsh,
but
> I believe we must address the situation in as firm a manner as possible.
> Yes, you might lose some congregants. But you will be doing the right
thing
> for the bigger society as a whole.
>
> And yes, there are certainly situations where you can creatively involve
the
> children during the service. As a teacher, I completely understand and
> appreciate that approach. But I also want to drive home the message that
we
> also must help people/congregants/parents understand the need for them to
> act appropriately in regards to the bigger group of which they are a part.
> As baseball gets into full swing, you should pardon the pun, might I
suggest
> that we all step up to the plate and do our part?
>
> Ellen Allard
> Worcester, MA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Specializing in Music for Young Children
> Ellen (at) PeterandEllen(dot)com
> ***********************
> For information on our award-winning recordings, children's concerts, and
> teacher workshops, visit http://www.PeterandEllen.com or call tollfree
> 1-888-746-4481
> ***********************
> What goes around comes around.
> Work like you don't need the money.
> Love like you've never been hurt.
> Dance like no-one's watching.
> Sing like no-one's listening.
> Live like it's Heaven on Earth.
> --
>
>
> ----------
> >From: "Jewish Songleading/Music" <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >To: "Jewish Songleading/Music" <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >Subject: HANASHIR digest 1501
> >Date: Wed, Mar 13, 2002, 3:00 AM
> >
>
> > There are times that new people come or that a two year old gets "antsy"
> > We had a bar/bat mitzvah service several weeks ago that this happened.
> > After it "got to me" I simply made the general announcement (there were
lots
> > of kids that night) that we would now have a time to meditate as
families
> > and that all children were to return to their parents, and all parents
were
> > to gather their children to silently meditate together and in doing so
as a
> > congregation we could all gain in our collective kavanah...then i asked
> > everyone to rise and meditate silently.  the parents with the unruly
kids
> > got the message!  some took theirs outside for a few minutes to allow
> > everyone to meditate and others just gathered them under their arms or
held
> > their hands.
>
>
>


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