Re: Dreydl

[Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan...>]

That very well could be, Ellen.  Were you already looking for this info
or are you looking because of my reference?

EllenBB720 (at) aol(dot)com wrote:

>
> Lori,
>
> Do you mean Nathan Chanin from Workmen's Circle?  I'm trying to find
> out when he was the ed. director.
>
> Ellen Bates-Brackett
>
> In a message dated 12/14/01 11:54:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org writes:
>
>
>
>> Subj: Re: Dreydl
>> Date: 12/14/01 11:54:49 AM Eastern Standard Time
>> From:    l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org (Lori Cahan-Simon)
>> Sender:    owner-jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>> Reply-to:    jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>> To:    jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org (World music from a Jewish slant)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Itzik, I suppose calling Wolfe "that woman" did sound dismissive. I
>> have an (unfortunately) undated Gelbart book, entitled Gezang bukh
>> far der elementar-shul, which includes the song.  Judging by the
>> type style and ornamentation of the interior, I would place this in
>> the late 1920s or early 1930s.  Looking at the cover, however, with
>> it's asymmetrical freehand design, perhaps this is a reprint with a
>> redesigned cover, but yet retaining the original artistically
>> rendered title lettering.  The paper has yellowed quite a bit. The
>> Forward was written by Educational Director for the Arbeter-Ring, N.
>> Khanin.  If anyone knows Workmen's Circle history, that could be a
>> good clue for dating this publication. Lorele
>>  itzik gottesman wrote:
>>
>> > Lorele - I would not dismiss Susan Wolfe's claims out of hand. If
>> > memory serves me right Samuel Goldfarb was the rabbi (or cantor?)
>> > at one point at the Kane st. Synagogue in Brooklyn (conservative
>> > now, I don't know about then). He was my father-in-laws rabbi there
>> > when he attended about 1930-33. Goldfarb compiled the influential
>> > "Jewish Songster" collections and I had heard from my father-in-law
>> > that he composed the Sholem Aleichem melody that most Americans use
>> > now. As for the dreydl song, I have yet to find it in a Gelbart
>> > collection. On the other hand Chana Mlotek served as advisor on the
>> > Western Wind "The Chanukah Story" CD, where Gelbart is credited as
>> > composer and writer, and she is the poysek-akhron on such matters.
>> > - Itzik
>> >
>> >>  I would like to think that the Yiddish text came first, as "I am
>> >>  made from lead"
>> >>  makes so much more sense than "I made it out of clay".  I read an
>> >>  article in a
>> >>  publication called "Being Jewish" (Center for Relevant Judaism)
>> >>  by the
>> >>  granddaughter of Samuel Goldfarb, whom she names as composer, and
>> >>  S. S. Grossman
>> >>  as lyricist. This woman, Susan Wolfe, also claims that Sam and
>> >>  his brother Israel wrote the
>> >>  melodies for Shalom Aleichem, the Friday night Kiddush, Adon Olam
>> >>  and the
>> >>  ¢traditional" Birkhat Hamazon. On the other hand, I think I
>> >>  remember seeing Gelbart books that have him down as
>> >>  composer for tunes I have seen attributed to others.  He was so
>> >>  prolific and
>> >>  wrote so many lovely and memorable melodies.  Anyone have inside
>> >>  info? While I'm at it, I think I'll beef about Velvl Pasternak's
>> >>  Songs of Israel (I
>> >>  think that's the name.  A friend of mine has it)  I was
>> >>  incredibly annoyed to
>> >>  see Yiddish songs in this book in Hebrew.  No Yiddish lyrics were
>> >>  present.
>> >>  Another thing that bugs me is the lack of attributions as to
>> >>  lyricist/composer
>> >>  in many of his publications, including this one. Lor(see how
>> >>  easily bugged I am?)ele
>> >>   lenka lichtenberg wrote: æ�æFrom what I understand, Ben Aaron
>> >>  wrote the Yiddish text, and Michl Gelbart
>> >>  æ�the tune, (as in the Workmen's Circle "Yontefdike Teg"
>> >>  collection), even
>> >>  æ�though Gelbart also lists the song as quite his own (no Ben
>> >>  Aaron) in a
>> >>  æ�different collection (in Yiddish). Who wrote the English
>> >>  text? I know there
>> >>  æ�is some controversy if in fact Gelbart wrote the music or
>> >>  not, but he
>> >>  æ�certainly presented himself as such in these two
>> >>  publications, that were put
>> >>  æ�out by people that knew him, and where he himself worked
>> >>  full-time - he
>> >>  æ�could have hardly only "pretended" that he wrote it, to them?
>> >>  dunno.
>> >>  æ
>> >>  æ�happy spinning,     lenka
>> >>  æ
>> >>  æÃ?â??â??â??â??â??Ã?Original Message -----
>> >>  æ�From: Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org>
>> >>  æ�To: World music from a Jewish slant
>> >>  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>> >>  æ�Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:20 PM
>> >>  æ�Subject: Dreydl
>> >>  æ
>> >>  æ�æ�This has been bugging me for years.  Why do the English
>> >>  and Yiddish
>> >>  æ�versions
>> >>  æ�æ�of "I am a Little Dreydl" and "Ikh bin a kleyner dreydl"
>> >>  have the same
>> >>  æ�tune,
>> >>  æ�æ�different words (obviously), but have different people
>> >>  listed as being the
>> >>  æ�æ�composer for each version?  Which came first?  Who is the
>> >>  plagarist?  Who
>> >>  æ�æ�should be sued and who should be paid?
>> >>  æ�æ
>> >>  æ�æ�This can't be a coincidence.
>> >>  æ�æ
>> >>  æ�æ�Lor(the easily bugged)ele
>> >>  æ�æ
>> >>  æ�æ
>> >>  æ�æ
>> >>  æ
>> >>  
>> >> â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??â??Ã?jewish-music
>> >>  (at) shamash(dot)org
>> >>  ---------------------+
>> >>