Re: Dreydl

[EllenBB720 <EllenBB720...>]

Lori,

Do you mean Nathan Chanin from Workmen's Circle?  I'm trying to find out when 
he was the ed. director.

Ellen Bates-Brackett

In a message dated 12/14/01 11:54:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org writes:


> Subj: Re: Dreydl
> Date: 12/14/01 11:54:49 AM Eastern Standard Time
> From:    l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org (Lori Cahan-Simon)
> Sender:    owner-jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> Reply-to:    jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> To:    jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org (World music from a Jewish slant)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Itzik, I suppose calling Wolfe "that woman" did sound dismissive. I have an 
> (unfortunately) undated Gelbart book, entitled Gezang bukh far der 
> elementar-shul, which includes the song.  Judging by the type style and 
> ornamentation of the interior, I would place this in the late 1920s or 
> early 1930s.  Looking at the cover, however, with it's asymmetrical 
> freehand design, perhaps this is a reprint with a redesigned cover, but yet 
> retaining the original artistically rendered title lettering.  The paper 
> has yellowed quite a bit. The Forward was written by Educational Director 
> for the Arbeter-Ring, N. Khanin.  If anyone knows Workmen's Circle history, 
> that could be a good clue for dating this publication. Lorele 
>   itzik gottesman wrote: 
> >> Lorele - I would not dismiss Susan Wolfe's claims out of hand. If memory 
>> serves me right Samuel Goldfarb was the rabbi (or cantor?) at one point at 
>> the Kane st. Synagogue in Brooklyn (conservative now, I don't know about 
>> then). He was my father-in-laws rabbi there when he attended about 
>> 1930-33. Goldfarb compiled the influential "Jewish Songster" collections 
>> and I had heard from my father-in-law that he composed the Sholem Aleichem 
>> melody that most Americans use now. As for the dreydl song, I have yet to 
>> find it in a Gelbart collection. On the other hand Chana Mlotek served as 
>> advisor on the Western Wind "The Chanukah Story" CD, where Gelbart is 
>> credited as composer and writer, and she is the poysek-akhron on such 
>> matters. - Itzik  
>> >>> I would like to think that the Yiddish text came first, as "I am made 
>>> from lead" 
>>> makes so much more sense than "I made it out of clay".  I read an article 
>>> in a 
>>> publication called "Being Jewish" (Center for Relevant Judaism) by the 
>>> granddaughter of Samuel Goldfarb, whom she names as composer, and S. S. 
>>> Grossman 
>>> as lyricist. This woman, Susan Wolfe, also claims that Sam and his 
>>> brother Israel wrote the 
>>> melodies for Shalom Aleichem, the Friday night Kiddush, Adon Olam and the 
>>> ¢traditional" Birkhat Hamazon. On the other hand, I think I remember 
>>> seeing Gelbart books that have him down as 
>>> composer for tunes I have seen attributed to others.  He was so prolific 
>>> and 
>>> wrote so many lovely and memorable melodies.  Anyone have inside info? 
>>> While I'm at it, I think I'll beef about Velvl Pasternak's Songs of 
>>> Israel (I 
>>> think that's the name.  A friend of mine has it)  I was incredibly 
>>> annoyed to 
>>> see Yiddish songs in this book in Hebrew.  No Yiddish lyrics were 
>>> present. 
>>> Another thing that bugs me is the lack of attributions as to 
>>> lyricist/composer 
>>> in many of his publications, including this one. Lor(see how easily 
>>> bugged I am?)ele 
>>>   lenka lichtenberg wrote: æÝæFrom what I understand, Ben Aaron wrote 
>>> the 
>>> Yiddish text, and Michl Gelbart 
>>> æÝthe tune, (as in the Workmen's Circle "Yontefdike Teg" collection), 
>>> even 
>>> æÝthough Gelbart also lists the song as quite his own (no Ben Aaron) in a 
>>> æÝdifferent collection (in Yiddish). Who wrote the English text? I know 
>>> there 
>>> æÝis some controversy if in fact Gelbart wrote the music or not, but he 
>>> æÝcertainly presented himself as such in these two publications, that 
>>> were put 
>>> æÝout by people that knew him, and where he himself worked full-time - he 
>>> æÝcould have hardly only "pretended" that he wrote it, to them? dunno. 
>>> æ 
>>> æÝhappy spinning,     lenka 
>>> æ 
>>> æÝ‚‚‚‚‚ÝOriginal Message ----- 
>>> æÝFrom: Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan (at) staff(dot)chuh(dot)org> 
>>> æÝTo: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> 
>>> æÝSent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 2:20 PM 
>>> æÝSubject: Dreydl 
>>> æ 
>>> æÝæÝThis has been bugging me for years.  Why do the English and Yiddish 
>>> æÝversions 
>>> æÝæÝof "I am a Little Dreydl" and "Ikh bin a kleyner dreydl" have the 
>>> same 
>>> æÝtune, 
>>> æÝæÝdifferent words (obviously), but have different people listed as 
>>> being the 
>>> æÝæÝcomposer for each version?  Which came first?  Who is the 
>>> plagarist?  
>>> Who 
>>> æÝæÝshould be sued and who should be paid? 
>>> æÝæ 
>>> æÝæÝThis can't be a coincidence. 
>>> æÝæ 
>>> æÝæÝLor(the easily bugged)ele 
>>> æÝæ 
>>> æÝæ 
>>> æÝæ 
>>> æ 
>>> ‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚‚Ýjewish-music
>>>  (at) shamash(dot)org 
>>> ---------------------+ 
>>>