Re: Barenboim and Wagner

[Trudi Goodman <goobietheg...>]

  It's a tricky subject...because although it's certainly in poor taste as 
far as I am concerned, I don't feel as a performing musician/artist that 
music or any other art form should be censored or  kept from audiences.  
However, with something like Wagner, audiences, and not just Jewish 
audiences should be privy to the information that his pieces will be 
performed.
I live in a city(Boston) which has beautiful Renoirs in its museum...when I 
read some of Auguste Renoir's correspondence, and saw the level of his 
Anti-Semitism, I never wanted to look at anything by Renoir again and with 
great sadness, I don't. But at the same time, I am loathe to keep the beauty 
of the work from others. Say what you will...Wagner's work is also beautiful 
and people have a right to hear it. People also have a right TO NOT HEAR IT 
TOO!
  Love, Art and Life!!!
   Trudi the G


>From: Leopold N Friedman <apikoyros (at) juno(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Barenboim and Wagner
>Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:57:04 -0400
>
>Yoel,
>"Art" is not art but something baser when it's thrust in someone's face.
>And, worse,
>when the "art" evokes pain that the so-called artist cannot even fathom,
>it is obscene
>in a way incomparable to other conventional taboos that are liable to
>censorship.
>
>Do I think Wagner should be performed for audiences in Israel? Yes, but
>only if it is clearly
>identified as such (consenting adults attending) and Israeli public funds
>aren't allocated,
>which probably precludes its financial practicality. I think very few
>would-be Wagnerian musicians
>would be able to afford not to pay attention to that bottom line. Let the
>German "art" establishment
>sponsor the production costs if they want; maybe they could hold benefit
>performances at that new
>luxury hotel to be built on the site of Hitler's mountain retreat with
>the proceeds going toward bringing
>such Wagnerian art to the Jewish state. They better do that quick,
>though. There may not be much of
>an audience for any classical music in Israel after the last European
>Holocaust survivors disappear.
>
>  I think that any musician who doesn't understand the power of music to
>evoke emotions and hurt
>should quit that activity.
>
>Apparently, Barenboim's abstract musical sensibilities that enabled him
>to appreciate Wagner's music,
>also blinded him to any ethical sensitivity to his audience or even his
>responsibility as a paid performer.
>Forcing Wagner's music in the faces of Holocaust survivors, who did not
>come to his concert expecting
>to hear it and certainly did not want to hear it, is an outrageous insult
>in so many ways.  Has he made
>any comment about it at all since? Has he provided any explanation other
>than his self-justification at
>the concert? Shades of Leni Riefenstahl.
>
>I don't think it's possible that Barenboim doesn't understand the
>significance of Wagner to Jews and
>Jewish Holocaust survivors in the music audience in Israel in particular.
>So, it was a provocative act,
>not one done in ignorance.  I don't think he was acting in the service of
>"art."
>
>Lee
>
>"Eliezer Kaplan" <zelwel (at) home(dot)com> writes:
> > You make some valid points, Joel. Governments should not interfere in
> > what music can or cannot be heard. However, there are still those of us
>
> > who feel  that the playing of Wagner (in the faces of Holocaust
>survivors) is
> > still in very poor taste.
> >                                             Later,
> >                                             EK
> >
> > **********************************
> > http://www.mp3.com/e_z_kaplan
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "yoel" <yoel (at) netvision(dot)net(dot)il>
> > To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: Barenboim and Wagner
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Several points:
> > >
> > > 1.  The playing of Wagner is NOT disallowed in Israel.  Works by
> > Wagner
> > are
> > > played on Israel radio, by the Israel Philharmonic, and by other
> > orchestras
> > > in israel.  The taboo on Wagner's works in Israel ended more than
> > a decade
> > > ago, though the issue does come up occasionally.
> > >
> > > 2.  The suggestion in Steve Stowe's email that Barenboim could not
> > pick
> > the
> > > program is wrong.  Barenboim picked the works on the program.
> > That is the
> > > conductor's prerogative.  If anything is improper here, it is the
> > Israeli
> > > parliament and Israeli politicians making rules about what music
> > can and
> > > cannot be played.  We do not have Entartete Kunst in Israel.
> > Olmert's
> > > comment that  "It's not [Barenboim's] job to determine whether the
> > State
> > of
> > > Israel decides to allow Wagner to be heard or not"  is both absurd
> > and
> > > deeply offensive.
> > >
> > > 3.  As for the substance of the objection to Wagner's music
> > because it was
> > > favored by the Nazis:
> > >
> > > a) The music of Richard Strauss is played frequently in Israel,
> > and no one
> > > objects.  Richard Strauss was not merely a Nazi, he was Minister
> > of
> > Culture
> > > in Hitler's government.
> > >
> > > b) Wagner's music was an inspiration to the Nazis.  It was also an
> > > inspiration to Liszt, Mahler, Bruckner, Schoenberg, Kurt Weill,
> > and dozens
> > > of others.  Musical idioms that have become common coinage of
> > modern
> > > classical and popular music were invented by Wagner.  Hitler
> > liked
> > Beethoven
> > > a lot.
> > >
> > > c) I have heard the "Seven Blessings" sung by an ultraorthodox
> > rabbi in
> > > Israel to the tune of Wagner's wedding march.
> > >
> > > In sum: a lot of great composers had really repulsive ideas.  A
> > lot of
> > > really repulsive people liked the music of this or that great
> > composer.
> > In
> > > the final analysis, the music speaks for itself.  And governments
> > should
> > not
> > > censor art.
> > >
> > > Joel Epstein
> > > Moshav Magshimim, Israel
> > > tel: 972-3-9333316
> > >      972-52-333316
> > > fax: 972-9338751
> > > yoel (at) netvision(dot)net(dot)il
> > >
> > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: owner-jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > >> [mailto:owner-jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org]On Behalf Of Stephen
> > > >> M. Stowe, M.D.
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 6:07 AM
> > > >> To: World music from a Jewish slant
> > > >> Subject: Barenboim and Wagner
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> B"H
> > > >>
> > > >> I thought that the following stories and editorials from the
> > Israeli
> > > >> Press make important reading.
> > > >>
> > > >> I really think that Barenboim acted improperly.  If he felt
> > strongly
> > > >> that Wagner should have been played then he should have refused
> > to
> > > >> conduct unless he could chose the program.  To do what he did,
> > in my
> > > >> opinion,  damages art.
> > > >>
> > > >> I wonder what others think.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Steve Stowe
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ************************************************
> > > >> Barenboim breaks the Wagner taboo
> > > >>
> > > >> By Zipi Shohat, Gideon Alon and Dalia Shehori
> > > >> Ha'aretz Correspondents and Agencies Ha'aretz 9 July 2001
> > > >>
> > > >> Having agreed not to play music by Hitler's favorite composer
> > at the
> > > >> Israel
> > > >> Festival, renowned conductor Daniel Barenboim did just that
> > Saturday
> > > >> night,
> > > >> breaking a long-held taboo in Israel and receiving a standing
> > ovation
> > > >> from
> > > >> most of the audience, but angry shouts from a vocal minority.
> > > >>
> > > >> Appearing in Jerusalem, Barenboim and the Berlin Statskapelle
> > played
> > > >> music
> > > >> from Richard Wagner's opera "Tristan und Isolde." Music from
> > > >> the opera
> > > >> was
> > > >> featured in the original program, but after protests from
> > Holocaust
> > > >> survivors and pressure from politicians, the management
> > > >> asked Barenboim
> > > >> to
> > > >> choose an alternative program.
> > > >>
> > > >> At the end of Saturday's concert Barenboim asked the audience
> > if they
> > > >> wanted
> > > >> him to play the Wagner piece after all. Most of them
> > > >> responded with loud
> > > >> applause, but a few angrily protested, shouting "fascist," and
> > "go
> > > >> home."
> > > >>
> > > >> Barenboim continued the dialogue with the audience, appealing
> > to the
> > > >> protesters to let the majority hear what they wish. "This is
> > > >> my personal
> > > >> encore to them," he said. "You can be angry with me, but
> > > >> please don't be
> > > >> angry with the orchestra or the festival management."
> > > >>
> > > >> After a bitter argument, in which those protesting were
> > > >> asked by some of
> > > >> the
> > > >> audience to leave the hall, Barenboim began conducting the
> > > >> piece. As the
> > > >> orchestra began playing, the protesters banged doors, but the
> > > >> interruptions
> > > >> ceased after a few minutes and the playing of the work was
> > completed
> > > >> without
> > > >> further mishap. At the end of the performance, Barenboim
> > received
> > > >> rousing
> > > >> applause.
> > > >>
> > > >> Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said yesterday that although he
> > > >> is a music
> > > >> lover, he thinks it best if Wagner is not played in Israel "for
> > one
> > > >> reason -
> > > >> there are a lot of people here for whom this is difficult,
> > > >> and it could
> > > >> be
> > > >> that this was too soon."
> > > >>
> > > >> President Moshe Katsav, who had been one of the leading
> > proponents of
> > > >> getting Wagner taken off the program, said that he was
> > > >> "sorry that the
> > > >> official bodies and institutes who made the decisions had been
> > > >> bypassed." He
> > > >> said that he was not interfering in artistic freedom, but
> > > >> rather taking
> > > >> into
> > > >> account the feelings of many Holocaust survivors.
> > > >> ************
> > > >>
> > > >> MUSICAL SNEAK ATTACK CONDEMNED
> > > >> The "sneak attack" pulled by Berlin conductor Daniel
> > > >> Barenboim continues
> > > >> to
> > > >> draw criticism.  Although he had earlier agreed to abide by
> > > >> the Israel
> > > >> Festival management's decision not to play Richard Wagner's
> > > >> music, he
> > > >> turned to the audience at the end of his last concert this
> > > >> past Saturday
> > > >> night, and said, "The concert is over; I will now play
> > > >> Wagner.  Whoever
> > > >> wants to, may leave."  Several people objected, but were
> > > >> drowned out by
> > > >> the
> > > >> yells of others.  A few dozen people walked out, including MK
> > Dan
> > > >> Meridor,
> > > >> but the vast majority - including State Attorney Edna Arbel
> > > >> and Supreme
> > > >> Court Justice Dorit Beinish - remained.
> > > >>
> > > >> The Simon Wiesenthal Center called upon the Israeli music
> > > >> community to
> > > >> boycott Barenboim for what it called his "cultural rape" of
> > > >> the Israeli
> > > >> public.  Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert said that Barenboim had
> > > >> "exploited
> > > >> the
> > > >> stage," and that his decision was "arrogant, uncultured, and
> > > >> unacceptable...  It's not his job to determine whether the
> > State of
> > > >> Israel
> > > >> decides to allow Wagner to be heard or not."  Wagner was
> > > >> famous for his
> > > >> anti-Semitism, and the Nazis later adopted his music and
> > ideology as
> > > >> theirs.  Playing his music in public has been forbidden in
> > > >> Israel since
> > > >> the
> > > >> establishment of the State, as an "offense to the
> > > >> sensibilities" of much
> > > >> of
> > > >> the public.
> > > >>
> > > >> *******************
> > > >> Ma'ariv, in its second editorial, notes that conductor Daniel
> > > >> Barenboim "succeeded in getting Wagner into the Israel
> > Festival
> > > >> through the back door, in contravention of a decision by the
> > > >> festival's institutions, and after the Knesset urged against
> > > >> playing works by the composer who served as a source of
> > > >> inspiration for the Nazi ideology." The editors note, "The
> > debate
> > > >> over playing Wagner - replete with gut feelings, myths,
> > symbols
> > > >> and, occasionally, boorishness - in Israel has gone on for
> > > >> decades already," and avers that "While many believe the ban
> > on
> > > >> the musical genius's works must come to an end, it is highly
> > > >> doubtful if the way to decide such a heavy and charged
> > > >> controversy is by pulling a musical fast one."
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > >> ---------------------+
> > > >>