Re: Ma'oz Tsur

[Robert Cohen <rlcm17...>]

Well, certainly, if one of the component melodies of Ma'oz Tsur was also 
borrowed by Martin Luther (though Sam cites sources questioning that), that 
in itself doesn't mean that, by virtue of that example, we borrowed church 
music.  I don't think I suggested that--though I may have been 
imprecise?--and, in any case, I provided other examples where we *did* 
borrow church music; the "Ma'oz Tsur" example isn't a required one for that 
observation.

By the way, some rabbinical authorities have opined that if a Jewish tefilah 
(prayer) melody is borrowed and used by Christians, then we can no longer 
sing it!  (This seems, as it happens, a bit extreme to me, and also puts us 
in a position of dependency on others for what we will use as liturgical 
music--hardly desirable.)

--Robert Cohen (I think signing off for Shabbes)


>The context ("borrowing church melodies") of the above lines implies
>(and follow-up postings confirm) the unwarranted leap from the fact that
>(a) Jews borrowed a melody and (b) Luther also borrowed it, then (c)
>Jews borrowed a church melody(!).
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