RE: kol isha at Orthodox shuls

[Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl...>]

Robert,

I have no idea what previous things you are referring to and am also not 
completely sure what you are referring to here.  I know that I have never 
written about Neshama Carlach on this list until this present thread.

I know very well that Neshama has had concerts at the Carlbach shul and at 
Lincoln Square Synagogue, but what I am not sure about is what the 
conditions for those concerts were.  That is why I wrote "probably".  Since 
I didn't go to those concerts or know anyone who did, I don't know if she 
sang before completely mixed audiences at these events and thus can not say 
so.  I imagined that she _probably_ had a mixed audience at the Carlbach 
shul, but I have no idea what happened at Lincoln Sq. or other Orthodox 
shuls.

Because Shlomo was so successful in bringing so many people to Orthodoxy, 
rabbis and synagogues would like to perpetuate the Carlbach effect, perhaps 
even a Carlbach dynasty.  But, I think that they are not quite sure how to 
handle Neshama the singer.  Neshama is successful at getting press to cover 
her vocal complaints about synagogues not inviting her to perform.  There 
are an awful lot of Shlomo fans at Lincoln Square and elsewhere.  Rejecting 
her may be perceived as a rejection of Shlomo and Shlomo's legacy, 
something that would very much anger a lot of people.  It could cause a 
backlash and that could be halakhically problematic.  This is why I wrote 
that Neshama is positioned to play a pivotal role in getting kol isha 
changed, whether the feminist legal scholars succeed on their own or not 
(having nothing to do with the merits of their argumentation.)  What I 
don't know is did the Lincoln Sq. Synagogue and other non-Carlbach 
synagogues decide to advertise her concerts without any commentary (I 
remember that they did), but figured that the Orthodox men would themselves 
know not to go?  Did they advertise the concert without commentary, but 
then started a hushed word-of-mouth campaign that this should be a women's 
only concert?  Hushed word of mouth campaigns happen all the time in 
Orthodox communities.  Did a lot of Orthodox men go to these concerts?  I 
don't know the answers to these questions.  You are the first person I know 
who went.  Please tell us.

I went to one seyder at the Carlbach shul I think in '96 and saw the 
phenomenal respect Shlomo's Carlbach's followers gave his divorced wife and 
daughters.  In these dynastic courts, women can gain great powers if no son 
is available to take over the leadership.  We, in fact, have an example of 
that right now in the Williamsburg Satmar community (as opposed to the 
upstate Satmar community), where the old (childless) rebbe's widow is given 
much deference and power.  Neshama's mother gave a dvar (=torah commentary) 
and then she asked Neshama to speak.  After giving her dvar, Neshama 
announced that she would like to sing two of her father's nigunim as a way 
"of keeping his presence alive" in this very mixed seating, family-like   
event.  I remember some hushed voices at that point, but rather subdued 
hushed voices.  I could not tell if getting Neshama to sing was Neila 
(isn't that her name?) Carlbach's manipulation for her daughter's sake or 
Neshama's own risk-taking.  The rabbi thanked Neshama for her dvar and 
singing, but I don't know how many congregants accepted a woman singing. 
 Since this was my first and last time at such an event, (and I am not a 
Carlbach family fan), I have not followed what happened when she wanted to 
perform a whole concert of HER OWN compositions.  (The articles I read 
about her didn't quite tell me.)  That is why I wrote in my post

>But I don't know how they work it out there or >at the Brooklyn Carlbach 
shul.

That same Rabbi Samuel Intrater recently resigned from the Carlbach shul 
and I have no idea why.  Does Neshama's singing and the loosening of kol 
isha rulings have something to do with this?  I don't have a clue, but it 
is possible.

>Shlomo *wanted* his daughter to sing!!! -- and trained her to (read an
>audience, etc.)

This I know.  In fact, she told us this at the seyder, I guess as a preface 
to her breaking the kol isha ruling.  But how many Carlbach hasidim or 
other Orthodox men accept Shlomo's persective on this is not clear to me. 
 I no longer find myself in these circles.   I taught at Lincoln Synagogue 
for 8 years, many years ago now.


Reyzl


----------
From:  Robert Cohen [SMTP:rlcm17 (at) hotmail(dot)com]
Sent:  Tuesday, February 27, 2001 8:18 PM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant
Subject:  RE: kol isha at Orthodox shuls

As I just posted a while ago (sorry for the repetition), this is *not*
correct--and Reyzl, ddear, I *told* you it wasn't correct a while ago!  At
least not as far as singing in concert.

The Carlebach shul isn't a "probably" (unless recent, possibly ominous
changes bespeak further ... ominousness), and there's at least one other 
and
probably more.  I've *heard* Neshama a the Carlebach shul and at Lincoln
Square.

Shlomo *wanted* his daughter to sing!!! -- and trained her to (read an
audience, etc.)

Sorry, again, for repetitiveness--am reviewing zillions of messages.

--Robert Cohen



>***ALL*** Orthodox shuls around the world, except probably Carlbach's shul
>in NYC, only because of his daughter Neshama insistance that her singing
>transcends kol isha issues.  But I don't know how they work it out there 
or
>at the Brooklyn Carlbach shul.  Shlomo prepared his congregation to look
>beyond this issue, probably knowing that his daughter would want to sing.

>
>Reyzl

>In any case, how does one know "events/places that have [observe a
>prohibition against] Kol Isha"?  Is it so at all Orthodox shuls?
>Where else? Are there telltale hints?  Is there a list?  Do you
>propose that there be one?  Or that we ask anyone who announces a
>program at such a place to identify it as such a place?
>
>Bob

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