Re: Oyf vs. Af

[Lori Cahan-Simon <l_cahan...>]

Thank you for the clear explanations for some very complicated and confusing 
issues.

mit a harstikn dank,
Lorele


"Robert A. Rothstein" wrote:

> Lori Cahan-Simon wrote:
>
> > But why is it always transliterated as "oyf", then?
>
>         TransLITERation is a system for representing LETTERS in one alphabet
> with letters in another alphabet.  Since both the preposition and the prefix 
> are
> always (except in Soviet Yiddish) spelled aleph-vov-yud-fey, both words are
> transliterated "oyf."  The YIVO system transliterates words of non-Semitic
> origin and transcribes (letters for SOUNDS) words of Semitic origin.  Thus, 
> for
> example, "oyf" represents spelling, but "yisroel" represents pronunciation.
>
> > What was the standard
> > pronunciation in the theater, for instance, if there was one?
>
>         Theater Yiddish is basically Southeastern (i.e., Ukrainian) Yiddish,
> more specifically the Volhynian dialect.  It is harder to learn for the
> non-native than the literary standard (the so-called YIVO standard) since it
> makes distinctions that are not reflected in the spelling.  For example, there
> are two words spelled "betn"; in Ukrainian Yiddish the word meaning "beds" is
> pronounced [betn] and the word meaning "to ask, beg" is pronounced 
> approximately
> [beytn].
>
> > What is the
> > pronunciation I should use without criticism?  It seems most people do =not=
> > say "oyf", but it is not clear what =to= say.  I think I'll take the "f" off
> > and just say, "Oy".
>
>         What would seem to make sense is for a native speaker to continue to 
> use
> his or her native pronunciation, while a non-native should aim for the 
> literary
> standard. In this case that means"af" for the preposition and "uf/aruf" for 
> the
> prefix.  The alternative is to use the spelling pronunciation of "oyf" for 
> both,
> which will seem unnatural to many native speakers.
>         Using the literary standard means, of course, that some rhymes won't
> work.  Herman Yablokoff wrote "Papirosn" in the theater standard, so "gringer"
> rhymes with "hinger" (not the literary "hunger"); Ma-Yofes, who translated
> Bialik's "Di verbe," was apparently a Litvak, so "dertseyln" rhymes with 
> "Peyln"
> (not the literary "Poyln").  But it's undoubtedly easier to stick to one
> standard than to try to adjust one's pronunciation to particular song texts.
>                     Bob Rothstein
>
> ---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org 
> ---------------------+
>