Re: Mahler/smahler/take 2

[Trudi Goodman <goobietheg...>]

Robert:
Read up about his life, and you will find that he was tremendously 
conflicted about his conversion.  His wife, Alma's biography says the same 
thing.  Although I never doubt that one can convert sincerely, for spiritual 
reasons to a religious group, I've got serious doubts about Mahler.  Also, I 
just get tired of any reviewer trotting out Christianity as a way to support 
a musical hypothesis.  Maybe he was sincerely Christian, maybe he wasn't.  I 
don't think so.  But hey, that's what makes a horse-race!

>From: "robert wiener" <wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: Mahler/smahler
>Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:43:37 -0400
>
>Trudi,
>
>I have attended a lecture on Mahler and Judaism, but I am no expert on
>the topic.  I posted information on the article because I thought that
>it might interest list members.
>
>There is no question that conversion was beneficial to Mahler's
>career.  But just as Christians make sincere conversions to Judaism, I
>suppose that it is conceivable that a Jew might make a sincere
>conversion to Christianity.
>
>I am not sure that the appearance of Jewish melodies in his later work
>would be proof positive that a conversion was not sincere.  Such use
>might not be a bread crumb trail to such a conclusion, but the musical
>use of effective melodies that were familiar to Mahler.  After all, we
>would not claim that the use of similar melodies by Shostakovich and
>Prokofiev are signs of their allegiance to Judaism.
>
>Sometimes one's motivations are a complicated matter.
>
>Bob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Trudi Goodman <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:10 PM
>Subject: Re: Mahler/smahler
>
>
> >
> >To which I retort--
> >Horsemanure!
> >There are at least half a dozen treatis on the subject of Mahler's
>Jewish
> >themes and phraselogy in his lieder---specifically Der
>Kindertotenlieder.
> >I'm not saying that he wasn't spiritual, just that he had a desire to
>be
> >published and performed and at the time, being"Jewish" would have
>been a
> >"detriment" to him.
> >Trudi the G
> >
> >>From: "robert wiener" <wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com>
> >>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >>Subject: Mahler
> >>Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:26:07 -0400
> >>
> >>Today's New York Times Arts & Leisure section, p.27-28, has an
>article
> >>by Nancy Raabe, "Mahler's Testament To the Abiding Unity of God and
> >>Nature."   Raabe writes that Mahler's conversion from Judaism to
> >>Christianity was one more of faith than of political convenience.
>And
> >>that his Third Symphony  "may harbor the strongest musical statement
> >>of the composer's allegiance to the Christian faith: more, even than
> >>in the last movement of the Second Symphony."
> >>
> >>Bob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________
> >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> >
> >----------------------
>jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+
> >