[Fwd: Re: Jews and Christmas music]

[Kame'a Media <media...>]

Peter Hollo wrote:

> Well, Wolf Kratowski has caused me to make my first post to this list.
> That's KraKowski, mister.

 > In her book, "Auschwitz: True Tales from a Grotesque Land", she
describes how, at Christmastime, the S.S. officers would sing "Silent
Night" and other Christmas Carols in the shadow of the crematoria.

> > Where are your warm and fuzzy feelings at now?

> I think this is totally irrelevant. 

Not to those to whom the association is all too real.
Not to those who were routinely set upon by gangs in E. Europe around
the holidays.  'Twas the season to be fearful.

 OK, I hate Wagner and I hate Richard Strauss, but I can honestly say
that it's the music that makes me dislike it rather than their
underlying antisemitism that I know about - after all, I don't like
Schoenberg's Transfigured Night very much either (late romantic in the
extreme), and he was Jewish...
 The fact that some Nazis liked singing Christmas Carols has nothing to
> do with whether Jews should be involved in sacred Christian music whatsoever. 

I agree;  not specifially because of the Nazis. However,  when a Jew is
praising Jesus in song or on an  instrument, in a church, in my opinion
-- a line has been crossed.  I realize people have a right to manipulate
their own parameters to suit their own purposes and desires.  "Pursuit
of happiness..."
> 
> To wish to deny Jews the pleasure of participating in, for instance
> Faure's Requiem (which is to me one of the most beautiful pieces of
> music ever written, and I'm not the only person (or only Jew) to think so),

If you read my postings in their entirety, I made it clear that, not
only do I admire ceetain Holiday music, from JingleBell Rock to Misa
Luba, but I said I in no way condemn anyone for listening to, admiring
or being inspired by any piece of music.  It is not, however,
appropriate for a Jewish person to lift his voice (or instrument) in
song to praise Jesus.  Jews do not praise Jesus;
this is    a n a t h e m a t i c to those of the Jewish faith.

 because certain parts of Christianity have viciously persecuted Jews,
and still do, is completely perverse. My grandmother survived the
holocaust in Hungary solely because of protection given to her and other
Jews by a Christian family. 

My mother, too survived due to the kindness of, among others, a young
Russian soldier, several peasants and the good people of Kazakhstan --
Christians and Moslems.  

By condemning all Christianity, and everything associated with it,
because of what an admittedly large proportion of Christians have done,
is tantamount to becoming our enemy.

This is a misrepresentation of what I said; read closer.
I stated a historical fact.  I condemned nobody.  

> Bigoted Jews terrify me - it shows me we're just as bad as everyone
> else. Oh well...
>
If what I wrote makes me a bigot in your eyes,  fine.
Anyone who knows me would get a good laugh out of that.
I agree; we definately are "as bad as everyone else".  Probably more,
given the neurotic component fostered by centuries intitutionalized
anti-Semitism and second-class citizenship; ghetto conditions, general
oppression  and internalized rage.
>
 Warm and fuzzy feelings indeed! Listen to the music, man!
You mean Faure's Requiem?  I'll make a note of it. 

 That's what it comes down to. I love Jewish music, and listen to more
and more all the time - klezmer, Zorn's Radical Jewish stuff, Ofra Haza,
other
> contemporary stuff... But Kol Nidrei (written by a gentile wasn't it?)

Was it?

> does nothing for me - I'm a cellist, and have been made to learn it; I
> know it inside out, and I still think it's a boring unmoving piece of
> schlock. On the other hand Faure's Requiem, parts of Mozart's Requiem,
> and plenty of other music based on Christian texts can move me deeply.

I go for Black gospel myself.
Sam Cooke, Al Green, The Staple Singers, Cat Iron.
Aaron Neville's "Ave Maria" could make a stone weep.
I don't think I would care for if Dudu Fisher sang it, though.

> It's got nothing to do with the words they're singing, or spirituality
> (which I don't believe in anyway), or anything. It's just the music.
>
This is unbelievable, coming from an artist. It has absolutely
everything to do with the words and the faith they profess.  Are you
saying, "It's just sound, man"?  It's time to change the bongwater.
Very sloppy thinking.  The whole deal is the feeling  one puts into the
words and the notes.  If this feeling comes from a place of
understanding and deep faith,  it might result in a beautiful moving
experience for everyone.  If it is just words (the singer neither
understands nor feels) and notes,  its a waste of time and the audience
has been ripped off.  Unfortunately, many cannot tell the difference. 
Then, the presentation and its attendance are merely filling a slot of
time in people's lives.  Might as well tune into the Simpson's Christmas
Special.

>With best wishes,
Wolf