RE: Re[2]: African Music/Radical Jewish music

[Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl...>]

The identity of the user is one criterion for defining the category, but not 
the only criterion.


Reyzl


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From:  richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com[SMTP:richard_wolpoe (at) ibi(dot)com]
Sent:  Thursday, November 19, 1998 10:05 AM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant.
Subject:  Re[2]: African Music/Radical Jewish music 

Like a lot of things, it's probably a matter of consensus. Think of hatikvo, for
example which can be traced to non-Jewish roots. What makes it Jewish? Answer: y
adoption and adaption (there's some sort of pun here, but I'm not sure exactly).

If Oleinu ends to a meddley of 3 Blind Mice and the Farmer in the Dell, it's 
Jewish anyway.  Why? Because gazillions of Jews use it as part of the service.

I.e. its not the origins so much as the usage.  Radical musici may need some 
time or perspective to be definitely included.  meanwhile, it might be too soon 
to tell


My 2 cents

Rich Wolpoe


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RE: African Music/Radical Jewish music 
Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> at Tcpgate
Date:    11/19/98 10:33 AM


>Can there be any hope of isolating Jewish
>music from all other music?  How important is it to do that?

Critically important to do that.


Reyzl


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From:  Marvin Margoshes[SMTP:physchem (at) earthlink(dot)net] 
Sent:  Thursday, November 19, 1998 9:48 AM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant.
Subject:  Re: African Music/Radical Jewish music

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Gidley <ucs01bg (at) scorpio(dot)gold(dot)ac(dot)uk>
To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org> 
Date: Thursday, November 19, 1998 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: African Music/Radical Jewish music


>To ask whether or not the so-called "radical Jewish music" is 
>Jewish is an interesting and important question.
>
>It is true that much of this music, like more traditional forms 
>of Jewish music, are marked by a particular quality of pain and 
>passion.  But surely that is equally true of so much non-Jewish 
>music?
>
>Another feature that a great deal of Jewish music exhibits, as 
>so many recent postings to this list show, is its 
>cosmopolitanism, its ability to absorb and use creatively the 
>music of other traditions. But again, Jewish music is not 
>alone in that.
>
>I think perhaps what makes this sort of music Jewish is that 
>the people producing it are using to explore Jewish identity, 
>Jewish history and Jewish culture - posing Jewishness as a 
>question and not a fixed category that we carry in our blood. 
>
>When Jewish music enters into dialogue with African-American 
>music, something similar is happening. While musical purists 
>want to patrol the fences between different traditions, 
>placing them in dialogue, highlighting the moments when our 
>histories have come together, also poses these questions.
>
>What do other people think?
>
> Benjamin


I've been following this maillist and the alt.music.jewish newsgroup for 2-3 
years now, with some breaks, and the question of what is Jewish music keeps 
coming up.  Nobody has proposed a definition that comes close to satisfying 
even a majority, and I doubt it can be done.  As Jews settled around the 
world, they brought along their own music and adapted to their own purposes 
the music of their nerw homes.  Can there be any hope of isolating Jewish 
music from all other music?  How important is it to do that?