Re: Orgin of Hatikvah

[richard_wolpoe <richard_wolpoe...>]

Dear Itsik Leib,
        Thanks for the infomration.  What I did know was that there was a folk 
melody that preceeded all of the above.  This melody has been adapted by the 
Frankfurt Minhog and predates both Smetana, Imber and all the rest by as much as
a century or 2.
        The liturgical application is sung to this very day at Breuer's to v'olu
moshiim on both Chanukkah and Purim.  It's not exactly like die Moldau nor 
hatikvah, but it's real close to both.  Knowing the Breuer Gemeinde's position 
vis-a-vs Imber, it's safe to assume that this melody pre-dates any Zionistic 
affiliation by a long, long time.
        Also note that v'olu moshiim is a messianic vision and that this meoldy 
is applied on Chanukkah and Purim.  I had alwasy assuemd taht the commmon thread
of ALL of the above is the patriotic/nationalistic aspects.  I think that both 
Die Moldau and hativkah are cleraly patiroatic meolides.  it's likely that this 
v'olu moshiim is also meant to liturgically express a fervent national dream of 
Moshiach. 

        Now help me out on this. if you're anecdote is true:
 <.. set it to the tune of a well-known Rumanian folk song, _Carul cu Boi_ (Cart
and Oxen). then how did it get to to be Yekke litgurgical song and a Bohemian 
pattriotic song?  Bohemia is a lot closer culturally to Frankfort than is 
Moldavia, so that connection is not as big a reach.

        The anecdote may be literally true in that teh famer in question thought
that the tune originated with the Moldavian folk melody.  What that farmer may 
not have know, (and maybe Imber did) is that melody has much more "ancient" 
roots.   So MY spin on  that story is that if it's true, the farmer Mr. Cohen 
suggested the Modlau theme in the form HE knew it (ie a Moldavian folk melody). 
But more spohisticated musical people may have know the Moldau connection all 
along.

        I'll give YOU a reali life anecdote from MY life.  I attended services 
in 770 Eastern Parkway when I was about 13.  I came back singing their Hashem 
Echod (Nyet Nyet Nikavo) melody.  One of my Hebrew teachers, (who was a native o
carist russia) started laughig at me.  He asked me if I knew that this was a 
VERY baudy Russian Army melody?  I had no idea.  But I eventually did see it 
sung in a movie about WWI, in a scene where Czarist Russia army troops march to 
this very same melody.  So Itziok Leib, if today you would ask 250,00 
Lubavichers, what is the origin of this tune, you'll get 1 answer; while if 
you'd ask a very few experts in pre-revolutionay Russain Army drinking songs, 
you'd get another answer.  IMHO I suspect the same at work here.  The jews from 
Moldavia did know it as a local folk song, but that does NOT mean it din't 
originate elsewehere...


Regards,
Rich Wolpoe 


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Orgin of Hatikvah 
Author:  <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org > at tcpgate
Date:    2/25/98 11:15 AM


Sandy is right.

According to the _Encyclopedia Judaica_ (1972), pp.1470-1472, Naphthali 
Herz Imber wrote the words, probably at Iasi, Moldavia in 1878. When 
Imber was in Palestine (1882), he read the poem to a group of Jewish 
farmers at the settlement of Rishon le-Ziyyon, and one of these, Samuel 
Cohen, who had emigrated from Moldavia in 1878, set it to the tune of a 
well-known Rumanian folk song, _Carul cu Boi_ (Cart and Oxen). The 
resemblance to the tune of The Moldau by Smetana is due to the fact that 
various versions of this tune were known throughout Eastern Europe as 
folk songs.

Incidentally, all of this was hashed out a mere eight months ago on this 
List.

Itzik-Leyb