[HANASHIR:3583] Re: HANASHIR digest 610

[BEBWH <BEBWH...>]

 as a point of clarification, the Torah says nothing on the matter of the 
 the fast days.  It was an ordained fast day.  Zechariyah says that 
 someday they will be feast days.  The sources bring down that will be in 
 the the time of redemption. R' David Golinkin, a Masorti Rabbi in Israel, 
 wrote a tshuvah showing up till the Geonim and most Rishonim, the fasts 
 were considered reshut (optional) since there was no peace and no war.  
 Only later did a posek (law-code) say 'they are optional, but everyone 
 wants to.  we are in the habit of being stringent.'  His tshuvah, taking 
 our possession of the state of Israel into account, I believe permits 
 breaking the fast at minchah.  It may be found in the first edition of 
 the Va'ad halacha of Masorti.
        It is made mention in the Tana"ch (scriptures) and is very 
 important, but I wouldn't say it's from the Torah.

When saying from the "Torah" I am considering the Shulchan Aruch and other 
Rabbinic Codes to be Torah. Because the Va'ad Halacha of the Masorti (is that 
what we call Conservative in the USA?, honestly don;t know) says so is that 
what is done in Israel? 
 
<<Not true.. .Halacha does not change. Every circumstance is evaluated 
 and an answer is given ACCORDING TO HALACHA>>
 
 that is semantics.  the halakha does change. it's name means 'the way we 
 go', the system is more constant than 'the way we go'.  a brief look at 
 Jewish history will prove my point that the halakha has always been 
 diverse and changing.
        i further don't believe you needed to have been so polemical in 
 your email.
 
Sorry
 
From: BEBWH (at) aol(dot)com
 << For example I'll bet we all know you don't find insturments in 
 Orthodox synagogues on Shabbat yet there were insturments in the Holy 
 Temple on Shabbat. Any of us guitar players can tell you there's no issue 
 of work for me when I play so why does the tradition say we can't play on 
 Shabbat now?>>
 
 please, the prohibition of instruments on the sabbath is a gezera, a 
 decree.  It is not a m'lacha.  please see Gruenfeld's "The Sabbath" for a 
 brief overview of what m'lahca is.  it is not 'work.' it is more complex 
 than that.  Shabbat is a day when we rely on things that existed before 
 its onset, a day when we remove all divisions between ourselves and God 
 and sorta go back to nature. We become self-reliant and must focus on 
 ourselves and our family.  That is why some early responsa permitted 
 Telephone use on the Sabbath for non-business purposes.  It brings people 
 together.  accepting the ban on instruments on shabbat takes a leap of 
 faith, to accept the rabbi's teachings.  I can only say 'go and learn' 
 for you to understand what it means.

There was a time that turning lights on and off was also permitted but we 
have evolved and in most cases are more stringent. Remember eating Wrigleys 
Gum, it used to be Kosher too till we found out. The whole definition of 
Kashrus is totally different today because we know more. Musical insturments 
are definitly a gezara, 
but if you were to play an insturment nobody refers to it as going against a 
gezera, it's considered Halacha that you just don't. 

 well, that is that. i hope this list will soon calm down again and get 
 back to 'why do the words for v'haer eineinu say "v'lo nevosh, v'lo 
 nikalem, v'lo niqashe, l'olam va'ed.
 
Why? This is also fun and informative. Thanks for the dialogue.
 

 
 
 
 
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