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[HANASHIR:17234] Re: shiron for shirah b'tzibur

  Hi Bob,

  A shiron like the one you envision would be awesome, with all of your 
suggestions in place.  I know the woman who worked on the Young Judea shiron - 
that project took three years and alot of funding - and the worst part was 
dealing with ACUM - the Israeli copyright organization (like ASCAP).  Is it 
possible that the potential market for such a comprehensive project is simply 
too small?

  Wouldn't it be even better to have such a Shiron on a CD, or on a website, 
where people could print at home only the songs they're interested in? (and pay 
for it through the net?)

  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
  Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Robert Wiener 
    To: World music from a Jewish slant 
    Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:12 AM
    Subject: shiron for shirah b'tzibur

    Any suggestion for a comprehensive volume or series of booklets of 
shironim/songsters for shirah b'tzibur/group singing of Israeli songs -- a kind 
of "Rise Up Singing" with the following characteristics (have I left any 
important ones out?):
    1. comprehensive (includes a large number of songs from all periods, from 
the First Aliyah to the present, primarily secular, especially those reflecting 
Israel's history)
    2. correct (text without too many errors)
    3. legible
    4. transliterations
    5. translations (to English)
    6. complete (all verses of songs as composed, in both Hebrew and 
transliteration and translation)

    I think that it would be wonderful to have a companion version with music.  
(Now that I think of it, there used to be a book "The Songs We Sing" by Harry 
Coopersmith that had a words-only book and a book with music.  But my copy is 
dated 1950, and it is inconsistent in the inclusion of translations and 
transliterations.  The Tara series, too, has only partial translations and 
transliterations and would require acquiring many volumes which have no 
particular themes (e.g., organized by historical period or topic).)

    The Young Judaea shiron comes close, but for many of the songs it omits 
several verses and only translates and transliterates about half of the verses 
it includes.  B'kol Echad does well for the relatively small number of songs it 

    What do list members think of the desirability of having such a work?  Does 
my difficulty in finding such a work reflect:
    1. the belief that anyone interested enough in the songs of Israel is 
probably fluent in reading and understanding Hebrew
    2. the great difficulty and time commitment in making good transliterations 
and translations?

    On the other hand, and a former "BJ" member I have seen how accessibility 
can be crucial in getting people involved in singing.  Comments please.


    P.S.  In the alternative, I would be interested in suggestions for a 
comprehensive volume or series of booklets of shironim/songsters in Hebrew 
alone (e.g., I know of the Camp Ramah shiron) that had characteristics 1, 2, 3, 
and 6.

    P.P.S.  This post is quite long, so I imagine that list-members would 
appreciate it if those who reply include just the section of my post relevant 
to their comments.

    Robert Wiener
    wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com

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