[HANASHIR:11272] Re: Response to Shirona and Sholom.

[Judah Cohen <jcohen...>]

Simply stated, then:  You call your local mosque and I'll call mine (the New
York Islamic Center, a block and a half away from me on 96th Street and 3rd
Ave).  And then we'll check back with each other and compare notes via the
list.  Ground rules:  we're looking for any Arabic songs about peace, right?
Hopefully, this will be an educational experience for both of us.

Judah.

> From: "Shirona" <shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net>
> Reply-To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 21:43:25 -0400
> To: <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> Subject: [HANASHIR:11271] Re: Response to Shirona and Sholom.
> 
> Dear Judah,
> 
> With respect to your considerable effort and many words - I'm not sure I get
> your point...
> 
> You are absolutely right that I started with an assumption.  Without
> searching Arabic song books or interviewing Arab dj's I made an assumption
> that few, if any, songs about peace exist in the Arab world. (All great
> theories start with an assumption...;-)  If I turn out to be wrong - it will
> raise my hope by a few notches and I will apologize to you and whoever else
> was "offended" by my assumption.  But it's with a heavy heart that I believe
> I am right... even after all your technical objections.  How to interpret
> this yet-to-be-proved fact is a whole other story...
> 
> I posted the same message on the other Jewish music list at Shamash, where
> the members are all musicians, musicologists, archivists - and no one so far
> produces any evidence to the contrary. Perhaps you're up to the
> challenge...Alot more can be said about this, but not tonight...
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Shirona
> 
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
> Listen to my music at www.mp3.com/shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Judah Cohen" <jcohen (at) fas(dot)harvard(dot)edu>
> To: <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 7:42 PM
> Subject: [HANASHIR:11269] Response to Shirona and Sholom.
> 
> 
>> Shirona and Sholom,
>> 
>> The way I see it, you are trying to say two different (and relatively
>> incompatible) things here at the same time.
>> Yes, I am aware of the anti-Semitic incidents at the hands of Muslims
>> around the world.  I have no intention of going into denial about them.
> At
>> the same time, however, it is almost ludicrous to imply from this that
>> Muslim songs don't speak of peace.  What I read in your message was that
> you
>> found all the Jewish/Israeli peace repertoire by looking in songbooks;
> how,
>> then, can you assume the "lack" of Arabic peace repertoire by looking in
> the
>> newspapers?  (If you had used the same technique to locate peace songs by
>> Israelis, they wouldn't have come out looking nearly as good.)  That's why
> I
>> suggested you redirect your search toward a group of people who ARE
> Muslims,
>> and may be able to present you with songbooks of their own.  Then,
> perhaps,
>> you can gain the information you sought in order to make a fairer
>> comparison.
>> And as far as "awareness" goes--it should be more than clear that not
> all
>> awareness is the same.  Taking an American example, I'd be interested to
> see
>> how Britney Spears's "Oops, I did it again" reflects your formula that
> what
>> "people write and sing and listen to are as close to the 'heart' of the
>> matter as anything."  Likewise with Ice-T's "Cop Killer."  Yes, on the
>> surface of it, these hardly bear comparison to the Egyptian song "I Hate
>> Israel."  But that's the point:  the number of copies sold does not
>> necessarily reflect the deepest hopes or beliefs of an entire people.  In
>> this case, it seems the heat of the time period (made hotter by Israel's
>> operations in the West Bank) has caused an obscure song to gain national
>> attention through consumption by a certain demographic of people (i.e.,
>> mainly young people and students) particualrly prone to protests.
> Further,
>> the "I Hate Israel" phenomenon should be seen in its own context:  that
>> Egypt currently has one of the strongest and most effective policies of
>> anti-Muslim-extremism in the Middle East; that recent protests have been
>> contained by Egyptian police; that the city actively supports at least two
>> historic synagogues; and that at least up until recently, Israelis could
>> walk through the streets of Cairo with relatively little difficulty (I
> went
>> with a group of students in the Fall of 1999, flew into the country on El
>> Al, and twice explored deep into the markets and local areas alone with
>> little more than a few smiles--the hardest time I had was trying to find
> an
>> empty seat on the plane).  Sure, the song's popularity means something;
> but
>> presenting it as a single, undocumented swipe (and yes, Sholom, it would
>> have been much more meaningful to me if you had more careful in presenting
>> your one-liner) presents only one part of a much more complicated
> situation:
>> it does not explain everything.
>> And frankly, I find your comparison to the Holocaust to be
> irresponsible
>> and unnecessarily alarmist.  Yes, these recent acts of anti-Semitism are
>> terrible.  Yet even the most damning accounts of the Holocaust (I'm
> thinking
>> especially of Goldhagen's "Hitler's Willing Executioners") describe the
>> civilian aggression as taking place *in concert* with an organized
>> government professing a clear anti-Jewish agenda.  That is NOT what is
>> taking place here--European governments are condemning the anti-Jewish
>> activity, just as they condemned the anti-Muslim incidents that took place
>> after September 11.  On this, Yom HaShoah, perhaps we should also learn to
>> be very, very careful when we yell "Holocaust!" in a crowded political
>> theater.
>> Finally, to incorporate Jerry Kaye's fascinating post:  many of our
>> songs of peace are not all that politically neutral either (though
> granted,
>> they're not about blood and martyrdom).  Maybe I'm overstepping my bounds
>> here, but it's certainly worth thinking about.  "Shalom" carries with it a
>> connotation of keeping the status quo, just without conflict--but with
> that
>> comes the implication that Israel and the Jewish people are happy with
> what
>> they have, and will not give it up.  It seems, looking at the songbooks I
>> have, that our songs became a lot more "Shalom"-centered AFTER Israel was
>> founded.  At least based on a quick perusal of Moshe Nathanson's 1939
>> "Shireinu" songbook, the few songs that included the word "Shalom" applied
>> the word directly to the Jews ("Sim Shalom") or to Jewish practices
> ("Shalom
>> Aleichem").  Compare that with the end of Psalm 137, describing the
>> post-Biblical exile of the Jewish people (the beginning of which I've
> heard
>> several congregations sing at their Yom HaShoah services as "By the Waters
>> of Babylon"):  "O violated daughter of Babylon!  Praise to the one who
>> repays you in the manner that you have dealt with us // Praise to the one
>> who will clutch and dash your infants against the rock."  Jews had their
>> paeans of revenge as well while in exile; but once they reached a
> situation
>> with which they were comfortable (i.e., the restoration of Israel), then
> the
>> desire for peace broke out.  I make no excuses for Palestinian anger or
>> violence.  However, might it be possible that for BOTH Israelis and
>> Palestinians what is stated as "Peace" on one side might be interpreted by
>> the other as exclusion, conquest or oppression--especially when both sides
>> lay claim to the same land?
>> 
>> Be well.
>> Judah Cohen.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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