[HANASHIR:8260] RE: A Woman's Place (Kol Isha)

[Eric Simon <erics...>]

At 06:34 PM 2/19/01 -0800, shirona wrote: 
>>>>
> Can you find another "bottom line?
<<<<

There are lots of bottom lines, depending upon your point of view.  I posit one below.

>>>>
> I am sorry if I offended anyone out there ( Jordan, Eric, Judah, ) - but it's hard not to offend when you already feel so offended, as I (and obviously so many others ) do  by "Kol Isha Ervah".  It's hard not to show a degree of disrespect - 
<<<<

Are you saying that "being offended" is an acceptable excuse to offend?  That feeling disrepected is an acceptable excuse to show disrespect?

Are traditional Jews, who you claimed were spitting in your eye, now free to use such invective against you?  Will you understand it?

I prefer to think (and traditional Judaism believes) that our intellect can reign in our emotions, that we can rise above it.  (Indeed, "Chabad", an acronym for "Chochma, Bina, v'Da'as" -- knowlege, wisdom, and understanding -- is based, large part on that belief).

>>>>
> when I'm forced to hear that my voice is linked to "nakedness and lasciviousness".  Sorry. 
<<<<

Halacha and/or the rabbis didn't make that up.  Don't blame them for being the messenger. Surely you have noticed that men and women react differently to stimuli and/or have different threshholds?

Do you seriously think, for a minute, that traditional Judiasm is more sexist than this American culture that you laud?  Aren't you forced to hear, and see, worse in American culture. (see below before answering). Did you see the Super Bowl halftime show?  Do you see ads in the newspapers, magainzes, t.v.?

>>>>
> My voice is my instrument. G-d has given me a beautiful and spiritual voice
<<<<

G-d gave Brittney Spears a beatiful voice too.  And a beautiful body.  But . . . 

Look, the very fact that prostitution is "the world's oldest profession" means that from time immemorial there has been one gender that has had more "demand" than the other, so much so that they are willing to pay for it.  Clearly this must indicate something different, no?  

>G-d Bless America

Yes, good old American culture.  Where institutions like Hooters, Playboy, and Maxxim are big money makers.  And where not only men's magazines, but women's magazines feature on their cover pictures of beautiful women.  Where Anna Kournakova, who has never won even a medium-level tennis tournament can be among the most famous women's athletes.  Where Jennifer Lopez's dress was the talk of the media for two solid months.  Where the make-up industry racks in $20 billion per year because they have succesfully gotten women to buy in to the notion that looks are so important.  Not even to mention the elective surgery industry (reductions, enlargements, etc.).  How else to explain high heels?  Lipstick?  Where pornography (totally dominated by woman-as-sex-object) is one of the largest money makers on the  internet.

Is it any wonder why some men and women reject that sexist culture and prefer something else?

You don't have to agree with it, but don't blame Judaism for recognizing what seems to be a clear pattern from the beginnings of time, and trying to take steps to counterbalance that.

-- Eric


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