[HANASHIR:4831] Re: HANASHIR digest 763

[BEBWH <BEBWH...>]

In a message dated 1/6/2000 8:48:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, Sirull (at) 
home(dot)com 
writes:

<<  What I'd really like to know
 is the halachic premise for the exclusionary attitude.

I think the schools mentioned would assert they and only they can maintain 
the standards in the areas of accreditation. Many will not like this example 
but there is an issur (forbiddenness) of Baser Chutz, meat from outside a 
city. In an effort to gaurentee the level of kashrus of meat served at a 
public event there is an inyan (a principal) of mandating the meat come from 
a local source. One could say this allows all who eat at a public event the 
knowledge that the meat served is from the same source as the meat they buy 
to eat at home and under the supervision of what we hope is an accepted and 
reliable supervisor. There are others who say this principal only gaurentees 
the local merchant the big order for Yankels bris (I hope you're "invited") 
or Rachels wedding, (thanks but I'd rather stay home) and an opportunity to 
sell 500 peices of chicken at once and not the 5 peices you as an individual 
buy for Shabbos. Thats real money! Now, don;t go away mad yet...no matter how 
adverse you are to such a halachic concept, you have to realize the local 
merchant also pays the local supervisor for the hashgacha (supervision). In 
return the merchant knows that one of the benefits of going with this 
hashgacha over that hashgacha is that he/she will get the big order for 
Yankels bris and Yankels parents will not buy the meat accross state lines 
(even if it's cheaper or better quality!). Now, what is being said is the 
governing body, the local rabbinic supervisor (ie, for cantors: HUC, YU, JTS) 
is telling the customer (ie, the congregants) there are certain standards 
that can be expected when you go to a public function (services, life cycle 
events etc). They are also saying, we trained these people, we taught them 
our way of kashering meat, we invested in them, we gave them our hechsher, 
now we want you to use them and only them. However, this does not preclude 
the possibility of there being more than one supervising agent. I would agree 
that just as one may choose to eat from more than one kosher establishment in 
the same city under two different supervisions. I think that this analogy can 
help to clarify the business interest a supervisory agency may have, and 
don;t kid yourself, they have one, but there are many independents out there 
making acceptable kosher food, making kosher music and they should continue 
to assert themselves in the marketplace. 


 Apparently there are 
 rabbinical organizations that will not accept "un-schooled" rabbis, such as
 the one in Las Vegas. What a pity. Their loss! >>

I don;t think the level of resentment is as high here. Reform, Conservative 
rabbis, or any rabbis who are ordained from a Rabbinical College are 
generally accepted within the movement from which the cometh. Rabbis ordained 
in other independent fashions are usually orthodox rabbis and would not have 
the same desire to have their smicha recognized by organizations. I'm working 
on an independent smicha by myself, if I pass the tests the smicha will be 
written and signed by a single rabbi on his Yeshiva letterhead. After that, I 
don;t particularly care who will recognize it or not. I'm not planning to 
become a congregational rabbi in any denomination but if I wanted to be a 
reform or conservative etc rabbi I would have to be trained accordingly. 
Within orthodox circles there are certain smichas that are not admired as 
much as others. Who gave you the smicha; private or institutional, what level 
is your smicha, etc. Even certain orthodox institutional smichas are looked 
down on from other orthodox circles.  This is manifest in the issue of lack 
of structure in the training or "supervision" we are discussing above. If you 
are on your own nobody knows what you;re learning and nobody tests you to see 
what you know. That leads to anarchy in the clergy!!  To make a generality, 
in the orthodox world people rarely check smichas, if you are a rabbi you;re 
a rabbi. You can tell who is for real...and you're judged by what you can 
accomplish. I could only imagine what would happen in a large reform 
congregation if it were discovered the rabbi was not really a rabbi...

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