Re: Fiddler and The Rothschilds

[wiener <wiener...>]

My favorite song from Fiddler is "When Messiah Comes."  It's not very
universal.  Probably that's why it was cut.

Fiddler certainly was popular enough worldwide for me to own it in
about 8 languages.  We used the French version of "Sunrise, Sunset" at
our wedding for my wife's dance with her father.  (I considered
electronically splicing together a dozen or so versions.)

As far as I know, The Rothschilds only had the original cast
recording.  It did have some interesting people involved with that
production: Jill Clayburgh, Hal Linden, Chris Sarandon, Michael Kidd.
I imagine that other list members would pick out different names.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: George Robinson <GRComm (at) concentric(dot)net>
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Thursday, January 11, 2001 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fiddler and The Rothschilds


>I'm disinclined to argue with Robert on this. His explanation,
combined
>with the disappointment that The Rothschilds "wasn't Fiddler," makes
as
>much sense as any darker explanation that leaps into my cynical
brain.
>
>However, I still think it's a better score than Fiddler.
>
>And I like Irving Berlin (except for God Bless America -- I happen to
>like White Christmas,although I would sooner eat broken glass than
sing
>it myself.)
>
>George "If it's good enough for Bing and Fred and Ginger, it's good
>enough for me" Robinson
>
>
>Robert Cohen wrote:
>>
>> Since my cousin (by marriage) _wrote_ the (best-selling) book from
which THE
>> ROTHSCHILDS was adapted, I suppose I should have some words of
wisdom
>> regarding its (only relative) lack of success as a musical.  But
I'm not
>> sure I have any special insight on the subject.
>>
>> I do, however, have some reservations about what George has written
here.  I
>> think his proferred explanation is rather too glib; I respectfully
suggest
>> that George has wheeled into play a plausible, and always
discouraging,
>> thesis--to the effect that some American Jews and some American
non-Jews are
>> more comfortable w/ Jews being depicted as victims than as
successful--and
>> applied it, I think, not especially ... applicably.
>>
>> Consider:  Would George's proferred explanation _really_ explain
the
>> phenomenal, world-wide appeal of FIDDLER (of which I was by no
means a
>> tremendous fan, btw)?  Did Japanese audiences, say, really
shell-out bick
>> bucks to see Fiddler cause they cared _that_ much to see Jews
depicted as
>> victims?  (And, btw, I think Fiddler's depictions of Jews and
Judaism,
>> however romanticized, are far from so uniformly negative, either.)
Surely
>> not.
>>
>> When I asked Theodore Bikel to comment in my NPR documentary, "One
People,
>> Many Voices:  American People Comes Of Age," about the astonishing
success
>> of Fiddler, he opined:  "It is universal because it is understood
that what
>> this is about is not a narrow, Jewish thing but an experience that
can be
>> shared:  poverty, oppression, persecution ... and tradition, and
children
>> who refuse to follow it."
>>
>> That's a lot closer to the mark, I suspect.  Fiddler was a
phenomenal
>> success not because it so successfully depicted Jews as victims,
but
>> precisely because it transcended its subject(s) and context:  It
had a
>> *universal* appeal, because of its universal themes.
>>
>> The songs from Fiddler--I don't really remember those from The
Rothschilds
>> musical, even though I saw it, in its origianl staging, and from
front-row
>> seats!--brilliantly succeeded in capturing and embodying that
universal
>> appeal.  Do you really think "Sunrise, Sunset" is, I imagine,
played and/or
>> sung in weddings all over the world because of how Fiddler did or
didn't
>> depict Jews?  No--it was a phenomenonally successful song because
it
>> captured an experience, and emotions, that every parent, every
future
>> parent, every potential parent, and even every quasi-parent (of
nieces and
>> nephews, friends' children, etc.)--in other words, everyone--could
relate
>> to.
>>
>> (Though, btw, my favorite song from Fiddler is the Sabbath prayer
of
>> blessings for their girls.)
>>
>> I'd really caution all of us from too readily invoking dark
explanations for
>> the greater popularity and success of things we don't like.
>>
>> Then again, I'm all too ready to sally forth, darkly, on why Irving
Berlin's
>> infernal music was so popular....
>>
>> --Robert Cohen
>>
>> >Khaverim --
>> >
>> >Since the subject has come up indirectly, I thought I would pose a
>> >question to the list regarding Fiddler on the Roof, or more
accurately,
>> >the next Bock-Harnick show, The Rothschilds.
>> >
>> >I have to admit that I have never seen The Rothschilds staged.
However,
>> >I am very fond of the original cast album and know large parts of
the
>> >score by heart. I have always wondered why the show was
(comparatively)
>> >a failure; I actually prefer the music and lyrics to those of
Fiddler.
>> >
>> >I have always suspected that the reasons for its failure were
two-fold.
>> >First, it wasn't Fiddler -- how do you follow a success of that
>> >magnitude and NOT disappoint people?
>> >
>> >Second, and I think more salient, its attitude towards its Jewish
>> >protagonists and non-Jewish antagonists is very different. Fiddler
>> >sentimentalizes the shtetl (as we have established earlier this
week ;))
>> >and makes loveable victims of its Jews. The Rothschilds paints a
very
>> >different picture -- it shows Jews who fight back and do so not
with
>> >conventional weapons but with their financial acumen. And it shows
the
>> >Gentiles as overtly hostile, uniformly so, and pretty damned nasty
at
>> >that (In fact, the casting of Keene Curtis as all the bad goyim
sort of
>> >creates a Universal Bad Gentile who transcends history.)
>> >
>> >Somehow I think it was easier for the theater-party crowds to
handle
>> >long-suffering noble shtetl Jews than a bunch of take-no-prisoners
>> >wheeler-dealers who beat the Gentiles at their own game.
>> >
>> >Of course, it's also possible that the book was weak and the
supporting
>> >performances disappointing. Hey, I never got to see the show.
>> >
>> >At any rate, anyone who has looked into this, I'd welcome
comments.
>> >
>> >George Robinson
>> >
>> >
>>
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