RE: Similar Jewish & Greek tunes

[Sandra Layman <sandl...>]

Dear Paul,

The last time this came up, I forwarded the posts to Martin Schwartz in
hopes he'd send me a commentary for me to forward to the list.

Apparently, what happened after that is that Marty spent two hours writing
a response and then lost the whole thing due to a computer glitch. I think
he gave up after that in frustration, alas.

I'll try forwarding this latest post to him.

Meanwhile, people might want to consult his notes to the two Arhoolie
reissue records (from M. Schwartz's collection of 78s of Klezmer and of
"Greek-Oriental" music). There may be some clues there.

Best,
Sandra

Sandra Layman
sandL (at) compuserve(dot)com

____________

From: "Paul M. Gifford" <PGIFFORD (at) flint(dot)umich(dot)edu>
Organization:  The University of Michigan - Flint
To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date:          Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:08:36 EDT
Subject: Similar Jewish & Greek tunes
Message-ID: <144F8B16B98 (at) flint(dot)umich(dot)edu>
Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org


I'm prompted to bring this topic up again. I was listening to
Joel Rubin's _Oystres_ CD and recognized a tune, played by a
Russian group (though I didn't look to see which one), and
recognized it as the same as a 1920s Columbia 78 of Peter Mamakos
playing "Itia," I think. I knew a Gypsy violinist in Detroit (who,
incidentally had played at a resort in the Catskills for a long time)
who once broke into that same tune, and called it "Greek."

Anyway, there are lots of others. I know Martin Schwartz is interested
in this, and discussed it in his notes to the Folk-Lyric LP. I'm bad
at remembering names, but I've recognized lots of other similarities,
also with tunes identified as Ukrainian or Russian (an Apolsky's 
Ukrainian Orchestra 78 on Victor comes to mind----could be a Jewish 
group, though). Some day I'm going to have to sit down and try to 
sort the recordings out.

The thing about this is that I don't think these are "pan-Balkan"; 
I'm reasonably familiar with Romanian (Wallachian) music and don't 
hear many tunes in common with the recorded klezmer or Greek 
repertoires, except for "Doina Oltului" and "Ce mai foc si ce mai 
jale" (klezmer); the Greek tune "I Vlakha" (recorded in Constantinople 
early in the 1900s) is known, but it could be through Enesco's 
Roumanian Rhapsody (he probably got it from Romanian sources, but I 
don't know).  So there must be some direct connection across 
the water. Does anyone have any insights into this connection?

Paul Gifford


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