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[Trudi Goodman <goobietheg...>]

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Also try quering the New York Public Library...the librarians there are 
spectacular!
Cheppy Chanukah!!!
Hag Semeach!!!
Trudi the G
>From: "robert wiener" <wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com>
>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Subject: Re: promiscuous fusionizers
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 22:41:22 -0500
>
>I did.  I couldn't find it there.  Tell me if you can.
>
>Bob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Trudi Goodman <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
>Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 6:07 PM
>Subject: Re: promiscuous fusionizers
>
>
> >
> >check Bartlett's Quotations.
> >I do believe that it's Burke's though.
> >
> >>From: "robert wiener" <wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com>
> >>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >>Subject: Re: promiscuous fusionizers
> >>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:27:22 -0500
> >>
> >>Here's an off-topic question inspired by Eliott's post and the
> >>erudition of the participants on this list.
> >>
> >>Can anyone provide me with an attribution from a generally accepted
> >>source for the following quote:
> >>?The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
> >>do nothing?  (or a variation on the theme).
> >>(Edmund Burke is often credited with the saying, but I have not been
> >>able to find a source worthy of footnoting.
> >>
> >>Bob
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: eliott kahn <elkahn (at) JTSA(dot)EDU>
> >>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >>Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:13 AM
> >>Subject: Re: promiscuous fusionizers
> >>
> >>
> >> >I applaud Mr. Krakowski's stand for originality. In my estimation,
> >>some of
> >> >the greatest music in world history has been the result of an
>organic
> >> >fusion of styles. Just to name a few: American Jazz, Salsa, and
>the
> >>works
> >> >of J.S. Bach and Handel--both of whom continually employed several
> >>national
> >> >styles.
> >> >
> >> >But, I would also issue a word of caution by reiterating the
>words,
> >> >"organic fusion." One should be fully immersed in both (or more)
> >>styles
> >> >that one hopes to fuse, otherwise you may produce something that
> >>deserves
> >> >what an old composition professor of mine used to call "the
>eclectic
> >>chair."
> >> >
> >> >Or in the words of Alexander Pope: "A little bit of knowledge is a
> >> >dangerous thing/ Drink deep at rhe Pyrrhean spring."
> >> >
> >> >Eliott Kahn
> >> >
> >> >At 09:34 AM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Henry Sapoznik wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >I think klezmer suffers from both high artification and from
>the
> >> >>> promiscuous
> >> >>> >fusionizers who meld it with music forms they understand far
> >>better than
> >> >>> they
> >> >>> >do klezmer.
> >> >>> >IMnotsoHO...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Very well said and right on target.   "Promiscuous fusionizers"
> >> >>
> >> >>H-mm.  So the creative non-conformist who expresses him/herself
> >>witha lot of
> >> >>personal and contemporary style, and not from an expected
>position
> >>based on
> >> >>archived yiddishkayt-in-a-box nostalgia or novelty, is now
>musically
> >>immoral,
> >> >>too?  Interesting concept.
> >> >>
> >> >>In my experience, the word "promiscuous" is usually trotted out
>by
> >>the envious
> >> >>and the vengeful in an attempt to besmirch somebody's character
> >>because they
> >> >>are perceived as having too much or the wrong kind of close
> >>interpersonal
> >> >>contact.
> >> >>I don't like it.
> >> >>
> >> >>Please, -- Kabalas, Alan Eder/Pesach Posse, Klezperanto, Neshama,
>et
> >>al.,
> >> >>keep making more great, original and  "promiscuous" music.
> >> >>
> >> >>Remember to practice safe sax.
> >> >>
> >> >>Wolf Krakowski
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Kame'a Media
> >> >>http://www.kamea.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> - I really
> >> >>> like that phrase very much.   They are the ones filling up most
>of
> >>the
> >> >>> concert halls, because where else can such artifice go today?
>I
> >>can say
> >> >>> that very little of it is really creative and I have been to
>the
> >>last
> >> >>> Ashkenaz Festival where some of the best of that was presented.
> >>(There
> >> >>> was one moment [in the concert of all new compositions] where
>the
> >>noisy
> >> >>> jazz in the all new compositions program was so annoying that I
> >>truly felt
> >> >>> like throwing a Molotov Cocktail just to stop that pure noise.
>I
> >>soon
> >> >>> found out that many others were equally annoyed.)  There are
> >>reasons why
> >> >>> opera companies know that they can present the same operas year
> >>after year,
> >> >>> and theaters succeed in showing revivals and mothers keep on
> >>baking the
> >> >>> same meatloaf for generations or people continue listening to
>the
> >>same
> >> >>> classical musical repertory.   When people have refined a
> >>grammatical form
> >> >>> to become a classics in that genre, they respect and cherich
>it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Reyzl
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ----------
> >> >>> From:  ganzl azoi freyl [SMTP:d6l (at) hotmail(dot)com]
> >> >>> Sent:  Wednesday, October 13, 1999 12:27 PM
> >> >>> To:  World music from a Jewish slant
> >> >>> Subject:  re: klez go classical
> >> >>>
> >> >>> i'm flattered to be described as "difficult to keep on a leash"
> >><smile>
> >> >>> and 'course i don't mind being shredded and reassembled, but i
> >>would prefer
> >> >>> my tangents and asides be less central to your response,
>josh...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> my basic point (as distinctly opposed to your 'socratic
>summary')
> >>has
> >> >>> always
> >> >>> been about *emphasis*, not exclusion (the first time "banning"
> >>anything
> >> >>> came
> >> >>> up in this thread was when you put it in my mouth--please take
>it
> >>right
> >> >>> back
> >> >>> out, 'kay?).  i'm in no way opposed to sitting in a concert
>hall
> >>listening
> >> >>> to klezmer (or tuvan 'throat singing' or stravinski for that
> >>matter).  what
> >> >>> i see as potentially dangerous is the concert hall becoming the
> >>*only* or
> >> >>> *primary* site for klezmer music.
> >> >>>       the 'change and development' in music which i've said is
> >>necessary
> >> >>> can
> >> >>> happen in any context.... *but* when it mainly happens in
>concert
> >>halls it
> >> >>> seems to me far more likely to lose its connections to other
>parts
> >>of the
> >> >>> culture it's rooted in than when the experimentation is
>happening
> >>in a
> >> >>> variety of venues (among which the concert hall should of
>course
> >>be
> >> >>> present,
> >> >>> but not dominant).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> incidentally, you imply that there's a contradiction between
> >>dancing to and
> >> >>> listening to music.  if anything, i'd want to argue that the
> >>opposite is
> >> >>> true-- you just *can't* dance without paying serious attention
>to
> >>the
> >> >>> musicians; it's easy to sit and drift...  it's also worth
> >>mentioning that
> >> >>> venues with space to dance tend also to accomodate those who
>just
> >>want to
> >> >>> sit, while concert halls tend to frown upon dancing (with some
> >> >>> exceptions--the 'in the fiddler's house' tour being the first
>to
> >>occur to
> >> >>> me).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> finally, it seems more than a bit disingenuous to describe
> >>"listening" in
> >> >>> the concert-hall sense as part of the traditional wedding
>context
> >>of
> >> >>> klezmer.  then again, it seems thoroughly unnecessary to appeal
>to
> >>that
> >> >>> context to establish something as worthwhile for klezmer in
>1999
> >>(yes, i do
> >> >>> think that concert-hall type listening is worthwhile)
> >> >>>    --unless, that is, you want to insist that all klezmer
>contexts
> >>should
> >> >>> include dancing, wine, and a rabbi (which is probably closer to
>my
> >>position
> >> >>> <wink>)--
> >> >>>
> >> >>> that's it for me....
> >> >>> ideologically yours,
> >> >>> zayt gezunt,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> daniel
> >> >>>
> >> >>> p.s. "hidden agenda"?  what's *hidden*?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> p.p.s.
> >> >>> for reference, snipped for concision--
> >> >>> josh wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >That "variety of directions" excludes the classical venue,
> >>seemingly
> >> >>> >because it doesn't allow for you to breakdance and also
>because
> >>it
> >> >>> >encourages the act of listening (in your former email, you
>refer
> >>to >this
> >> >>> >as the "sit-in-yer-seat experience").
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >In spite of the fact that listening was a part of the original
> >>context
> >> >>> (the
> >> >>> >wedding) in which klezmer music developed, and represents a
> >>further
> >> >>> >possibility for "change and development," it >is banned from
>your
> >>list of
> >> >>> >outlets which allow klezmer music to >evolve.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Rather than antithesize the contradictions in your argument, I
> >>would
> >> >>> >rather manipulate them into a synthesized Socratic summary,
>using
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >In spite of actually sympathizing with some of your
>sentiments,
> >>Dan,
> >> >>> >it's hard to resist uncovering a hidden agenda in your
>ideology.
> >>Josh
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ______________________________________________________
> >> >>> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----------------------
> >>jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+
> >> >