RE: promiscuity and the single klezmer (was promiscuous fusionizers)

[Reyzl Kalifowicz-Waletzky <reyzl...>]

I think that several things are being mixed up here.   I really don't have 
time to respond today's list messages, but I guess I better respond before 
more misunderstandings occur (have to get to my own mailing lists AND go to 
the bank before it closes.)   OK, quickly.

First, there are "concert halls" and then there is the special, unique, 
case of Fiddler's House blockbusters.  There are all kinds of concert hall 
venues, but the ones I was referring to there the small downtown Manhattan 
music clubs, especially The Knitting Factory.  The Knitting Factory has 
traditional klezmer, of course, but they specialize in being a showcase for 
the newest avant-garde music, in this case, experimental fusion klezmer. 
  Places like Knitting Factory play a very, very important role in the 
world of all kinds of music, but it is a specialized role and not a place 
that would interest everyone who loves a particular style.

>i do agree that the concert-hall approach can indicate a lack of
>connection to other parts of the culture --  but not in the way i think 
you
>mean, reyzl.

Klezmer in concert halls -  There are JCC's, synagogues auditoriums, local 
synagogue parties where klezmer bands play, general municipal events, folk 
festivals, etc., etc. which are aimed at general audiences.  I would never 
even imply that there is anything tainted, negative, or problematic with 
these concert halls.   Klezmer bands are invited to these venues by Jewish 
and municipal organizers because they believe that Jews or Jews and 
non-Jews would like to hear the music.   Klezmer bands are invited because 
the organizers believe that the bands are cultural agents/carriers who will 
enable the general or Jewish audiences to connect with (their own) Jewish 
culture.   There is no issue of here of "the concert-hall approach... 
[lacking a] connection to other parts of the culture.

I will have to continue responding tomorrow.  Gotta go.

I hope I haven't misunderstood your point.  I haven't even finished reading 
your post unfortunately.


Reyzl



----------
From:  ketzenem meykhl [SMTP:d6l (at) hotmail(dot)com]
Sent:  Thursday, December 09, 1999 1:18 PM
To:  World music from a Jewish slant
Subject:  promiscuity and the single klezmer (was promiscuous fusionizers)

just a few musings.

from reyzl's original post:
>I think that the concert hall has become a dominant place for certain 
kinds
>of klezmer music, especially the fusion kind

i tend to disagree.  the concert-hall blockbusters are the "fiddler's 
house"
tour (which i enjoyed in both editions that i saw), which saw even the
klezmatics in a quite 'inside' bag and brave old world sticking to the very 
trad side of their repetoire, and the set of big-name bands who operate in 
a
very traditional american klezmer style (e.g. klezmer concervatory band).
     in different areas there are less traditional local heros with a
fairsized following, but on a national level, there aren't that many
exceptions: the klezmatics, b.o.w. and masada being i guess the biggest (if 
i'm excessively NYC-centered, please forgive and correct me).
     i do agree that the concert-hall approach can indicate a lack of
connection to other parts of the culture --  but not in the way i think you 
mean, reyzl.  as matt jaffey points out, even in concert-hall 'listening
music' the very idea of a 'classical repertoire', let alone the one we
_have_ now, is a very recent invention.  seems to me that the
concert-hall-izing of klezmer has the potential to [mark that phrase, josh
-- it isn't "will" or "does"] separate off a so-called pure-er or more
'genuine' klezmer from the other forms of yiddish/yiddish-derived music
being made under the klezmer rubric and leave this 'true' version the
isolated and artificially-respirated shell that european 'classical' music
so often is.
      concert-hall klezmer can be a symptom not of _musicians'_ so much as
_audiences'_ and promoters' disconnection from the *living*, *evolving*
parts of yiddish (especially secular yiddish) culture..... parts whose
potential and vivaciousness is shown by both the musical promiscuity of
contemporary klezmer and the quality of so many of its results.
and i say this as an avowed and proud rootless cosmopolitan <grin>.

zayt gezunt, gut yontef...

daniel

p.s. who put ben shahn in the shtetl-olatry camp?  huh?!?!?  bite your
tongue. the man was a promiscuous fusionizer if ever i saw one.... not to
mention rootless and cosmopolitan....    d6l

p.p.s. this is a footnote because it's not part of the promiscuity 
argument,
not because it's so brief...

again, with reyzl:
>Those musicians who have an intimate connections to many aspects of the
>culture don't depend on the music to connect to Judaism and > that is why
>the music is a more organic, living organism for them and their lives.

okay, just to open another can of worms while i'm at it.
i think your identification of "the culture" and "Judaism" is verrry
problematic on a couple of levels.  by me, there are two very different
things on the table depending on whether we're talking about "the culture"
-- the ashkenazi/yiddish culture that existed roughly from the pale of
settlement to alsace-lorraine, and in places populated by jews from that
region (from the u.s. to chile to australia to shanghai) -- or "judaism" -- 
the religion practiced, historically, in an ashkenazi form among others, by 
jews.
     a too-easy equation of yiddish culture and ashkenazi judaism (i.e.
religion) erases the cultural history in which klezmer (among other things) 
flowered -- the strongly **secular**, deeply jewish, yiddish culture of
eastern europe and america.
     while of course it's impossible to separate judaism from yiddish
culture, in even its most anti-religious forms, you certainly don't need a
"connection to Judaism" to have intimate links to many aspects of the
culture, going far beyond the musical.  f'rinstance, the ultra-assimilated
flocks that filled the shul at the one rosh hashanah service i've even been 
to certainly didn't demonstrate any "intimate connection" to any aspect of
the culture that i could see then or subsequently... while (i flatter 
myself
that) i -- part of the third american generation of a very secular family
(all three generations strongly jewish-identified, though of varying 
degrees
of assimilation) -- am connected on a number of levels to yiddish culture
past and present.
     one of the things i like about the klezmer/new jewish music upsurge, 
in
all its promiscuity, is the hope it brings for a reinvigoration of the
culture the music came from originally: jewish, anti-assimilationist,
secular, and cosmpolitan (plus radical, if i get to choose).
     much of this postscript has been influenced by the articles in that
special klezmer issue of _Judaism_ (i think it was) that's been mentioned 
on
the list before...         d6l

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com



---------------------- jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+