Re: klez/classical & dancing

[ganzl azoi freyl <d6l...>]

Matt?

thanks for the zev feldman reference; i?m gonna go read the whole thing as 
soon as i do this quick reply.

>you wrote:
>>sure.  but as i said, you'll have a hard time persuading me that >>such a 
>>thing as a "listening genre" of klezmer emerged before the >>music had 
>>been _outside_ the wedding context for a while.
>
>I heard another opinion expressed by the enthnomusicologist Zev >Feldman at
<...>
>[Feldman plays several pre-WWI recordings, introspective virtuosic
>forms...Note that almost none of these are dance music. Virtually no
>surviving klez recordings from that period feature dance music.]
<...>
>Even Belf had only a limited repertoire of dance music. Yet, >virtually all 
>Tarras and Brandwein music are dance music. But the >professional musicians 
>in Poland and elsewhere defined themselves >through virtuouso renditions of 
>artistic music. In America, the >klezmorim defined themselves through the 
>virtuosity of their dance >records...
>
>Very little of that old world repertoire survived in America; >primarily 
>dance music only.

far from contradicting me, this is _exactly_ what i said: that the 
?listening? klezmer music emerged in contexts other than the wedding dances 
and so on.  i didn?t mean to imply that the ?listening? approach was recent, 
just that its original context _isn?t the same_ as that of the 
wedding-dances which are now the stuff of klezmer in the concert halls.

>Daniel, I wouldn't be so quick to judge other people's aesthetic 
> >experiences (e.g. in the classical concert hall). All people are not 
> >built alike. I liked your description of why dancing to music is a >turn 
>on for you. But just because your mind may tend to wander >during a 
>sit-in-your-seat concert doesn't mean that others may not >have sublime 
>experiences that keep on bringing them back for more.

if you?ve been reading my posts, you?ll?ve noticed that i haven?t said 
*anything* about anyone else?s experiences, aesthetic or otherwise.  but as 
long as judging other?s experiences is the topic, i would like to know why 
my interlocutors tend to assume that because i?ve been speaking positively 
about dancing, i don?t like to sit and listen...  i?ve also been wondering 
why my critiques of the concerthall as klezmer venue have been so 
consistantly treated as if i was saying things against concert halls in 
general, or against the bands who play in them or their music ?- *none* of 
which have i *ever* said. perhaps you can enlighten me?

>On another point, having brought up CD's, this presents a context >which 
>hasn't been discussed yet. Through the ready availability of

yeah... that?s a big, important question that i don?t feel confident about 
touching at all...

>I'm curious what kind of dancing you do at a klezmer event.
<...>
>I therefore think it is quite likely that most people who dance at >klezmer 
>events are not really doing anything like keeping close to the cultural 
>roots of klezmer. What I have seen is a lot of bobbing >up and down, or 
>moving around in lines using no particular dance >steps, or using some 
>israeli steps - even when there was someone at >the front of the line like 
>Michael Alpert who knew what he was doing.

i agree with you *100%* about the dancing at klezmer shows, whther in the 
aisles of a concert hall or at the knitting factory... far too little 
knowledge even that there are specific dances to go with the different types 
of songs, much less knowledge of the dances (and on the latter i?m as guilty 
as any)...
     as for my own behavior on the floor?- most often, if i know the 
appropriate dance, i do it; if not, i look for the one or two folks who do 
[having michael alpert in the audience is always a huge plus...] and try to 
catch on.  less frequently (especially when there?s a lot of space, or 
everyone else is as clueless as i am about the proper dance, or when it?s a 
friend?s gig), i freestyle.  i?ve been struck by the ways in which the same 
rhythms crop up in klezmer, ska, and brazilian capoeira music, so i tend to 
blend the 3 ways of dancing, along with what breakdancing up-rock and floor 
moves i can handle (capoeira-based as they mostly are).  obviously this fits 
into certain bands? playing better than others?...
   just so i don?t get mis-cited again: i am *not* saying that everyone 
should do this, just that i do.  what i?d love to see would be both more 
widespread use of the traditional dances and more creative experimentation 
when none of them fit a given tune or no-one in the audience knows them.

and i?ve gone on longer than i wanted to.
good dancing all (and gut shabes too by now i suppose)

daniel

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