Re: Mahler/smahler

[Alex J. Lubet <lubet001...>]

Responding to the message of <007a01bede87$bf4e8d20$5c10f7a5 (at) bob>
from jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org:
>
The requirement that one be baptized in order to have a career in Europe in that
was certainly real, but no one was required to make impassioned setting of 
Christian texts on numerous occasions, as Mahler did.  So did Mendelssohn.  As 
far as I know, Offenbach, also baptized, did not.

One can set texts without being invested in their meanings, but I would suspect 
that not to be Mahler's case.  As Jews, I think many of us want to claim these 
composers as our own, but that means allowing ourselves to be defined ethnically
or racially, as others would define us.  As much as I love their music, I think 
the price of claiming them as Jews is too high.  

We should, of course, continue to appreciate their music and acknowledge their 
backgrounds, which are part of history.  The Strauss family of waltz fame also 
fits this description, by the way, and they were unusual in that their 
popularity was so great in the German-speaking world, that the Nazis actually 
changed their official birth records, rather than banning their works, a fate 
that befell lesser Jewish composers of the same genre.  There was an article 
about this about a month ago in the Sunday New York times.  

I have lately heard several accounts of Mozart having Jewish ancestry.  This was
completely new to me and I am far from accepting it as true, but I'm curious as 
to whether any one else has heard it and what's it all about. 
> 
Trudi,
> 
> I have attended a lecture on Mahler and Judaism, but I am no expert on
> the topic.  I posted information on the article because I thought that
> it might interest list members.
> 
> There is no question that conversion was beneficial to Mahler's
> career.  But just as Christians make sincere conversions to Judaism, I
> suppose that it is conceivable that a Jew might make a sincere
> conversion to Christianity.
> 
> I am not sure that the appearance of Jewish melodies in his later work
> would be proof positive that a conversion was not sincere.  Such use
> might not be a bread crumb trail to such a conclusion, but the musical
> use of effective melodies that were familiar to Mahler.  After all, we
> would not claim that the use of similar melodies by Shostakovich and
> Prokofiev are signs of their allegiance to Judaism.
> 
> Sometimes one's motivations are a complicated matter.
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trudi Goodman <goobietheg (at) hotmail(dot)com>
> To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 6:10 PM
> Subject: Re: Mahler/smahler
> 
> 
> >
> >To which I retort--
> >Horsemanure!
> >There are at least half a dozen treatis on the subject of Mahler's
> Jewish
> >themes and phraselogy in his lieder---specifically Der
> Kindertotenlieder.
> >I'm not saying that he wasn't spiritual, just that he had a desire to
> be
> >published and performed and at the time, being"Jewish" would have
> been a
> >"detriment" to him.
> >Trudi the G
> >
> >>From: "robert wiener" <wiener (at) mindspring(dot)com>
> >>Reply-To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org
> >>To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
> >>Subject: Mahler
> >>Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:26:07 -0400
> >>
> >>Today's New York Times Arts & Leisure section, p.27-28, has an
> article
> >>by Nancy Raabe, "Mahler's Testament To the Abiding Unity of God and
> >>Nature."   Raabe writes that Mahler's conversion from Judaism to
> >>Christianity was one more of faith than of political convenience.
> And
> >>that his Third Symphony  "may harbor the strongest musical statement
> >>of the composer's allegiance to the Christian faith: more, even than
> >>in the last movement of the Second Symphony."
> >>
> >>Bob
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________
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> jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org ---------------------+
> >