Re: Fwd: Spiritrave: slap happy

[robert wiener <wiener...>]

Dear Ari,

I'm a bit confused by this discussion.  Are kabbalah and hasidism
identical?  I don't recognize most of those identified by Gary as
hasids.  And I thought that hasidism came later.

And where can I read more about "the codified drug- (or alcohol-)
induced ravings of earlier Jewish non-conformists" kabbalists?  It
sounds pretty interesting, but I didn't find anything on a quick look
in the books I have at home.

I guess that some of this discussion is about whether these "new
edges" are new "Jewish" edges.

Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Ari Davidow <ari (at) ivritype(dot)com>
To: World music from a Jewish slant. <jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org>
Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: Fwd: Spiritrave "Dancing the Tree of Life": February 20


>>Dear Ari:
>>
>>While, even though as a Torah-observant Jew (of the non-aggressive
>>variety), I wasn't offended by your advertising of the "spiritrave",
>>having long ago participated myself in some pretty zany events of a
>>similar nature, I found your characterization of the kabbalah fairly
>>surprising, i.e.  "the codified drug- (or alcohol-) induced ravings
of
>>earlier Jewish non-conformists" (?!). Somebody correct me if I'm
>>mistaken, but I was under the impression that the Kabbalists
throughout
>>Jewish history were highly involved members, if not leaders, of
their
>>communities and were thoroughly entrenched in the normative halachic
>>tradition, certainly not outside it. Most were noted as much, if not
>>more, for their contributions to the "meat and potatoes" of Jewish
>>scholarship, i.e.  Torah commentary, Talmudic law, Jewish ethics,
etc,
>>as they were for their "mystical" writings, e.g. Shneur Zalman of
Liadi,
>>the Vilna Gaon,  the Ramchal, the Maharal of Prague, the Arizal,
Yosef
>>Caro (of Shulchan Aruch fame), the Ramban, the Rambam, R' Akiva,
Shimon
>>bar Yochai, to name a few.
>
>That's an interesting list, Gary, and surely deserves discussion on
>a list more focused on rabbinics than this one. But you need not go
>very far, even to the excommunication of hassidism by the
above-mentioned
>Vilna Gaon, and the ongoing descriptions of hasidim in Jewish
literature
>of the past couple hundred years in which they are referred to by
mitnagdim
>as drunks and worse to realize that in their time, they were
described in
>much the same way as some have characterized the "spiritravers" of
today.
>
>I did not intend this as a slap against kabala, but rather a slap
against
>the intolerance directed at those who are exploring new edges. I
apologize
>for the ill-considered wording that would have had it appear
otherwise.
>
>ari
>
>Ari Davidow
>The klezmer shack: http://www.well.com/user/ari/klez/
>owner: jewish-music mailing list
>e-mail: ari (at) ivritype(dot)com
>
>----------------------
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