[HANASHIR:15052] Re: cantorial certification(long)

[Adrian Durlester <adrian...>]

Ellen:

Thank you for your words, which I think clearly illustrate the need for
tiered levels of certification, and the option to study at institutions
other than HUC/JTSA/UJ (which might include online training programs.) The
Reform and Conservative movements need to open their eyes to the hundreds of
qualified, dedicated individuals who find themselves in situations like your
own. It is a shanda that they have so far failed to do so.

Adrian

Adrian A. Durlester, MTS
E-mail: adrian (at) durlester(dot)com  www.durlester.com
Director of Education & Congregational Life, Bethesda Jewish Congregation,
Bethesda, MD
www.bethesdajewish.com
Co-Director, Hazamir/JTAI Choir of Greater DC
Past Conf Chair, CAJE 27, August 4-8, 2002, Trinity University, San Antonio,
TX
List Owner, hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Jewish Songleaders/Performers List
www.ehavanashira.org
Co-Owner, l-torah (at) shamash(dot)org; Liberal Torah Discussion List




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [mailto:owner-hanashir (at) 
shamash(dot)org] On
Behalf Of elerner1 (at) rochester(dot)rr(dot)com
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 1:11 AM
To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
Cc: itasara (at) aol(dot)com
Subject: [HANASHIR:15051] Re: cantorial certification(long)


I have found all your comments extremetly interesting; and I did not bring
it up to open pandora's box. Had I had the opportunity to consider being a
cantor when I was college age, it certainly would have been a big  option
for me; as it was, there was NO option; it was not even a thought in the
mind of any female back then. I have sung in temple choirs most of my life,
but by the time I met one of the first female cantor graduates who worked at
our synagogue for awhile, I was already on my way to being a mother of five
and I did not feel it was something I could persue at that time. Besides I
couldn't just uproot myself from my husband or my children to persue
something that would probably have no guarantee of an income if I should
ever need it. However with a lot of work and self knowledge and the
influence of some special cantors and opportunities in Sisterhood,  I got to
the point when I was able to substitute at my own temple which is large,
and now I am a soloist at !  a small s Similarly,  I know that I can impart
spirituality in what I do as a soloist. What I was looking for as put so
nicely by the writer below is what you might call a <<creative>> way to
improve and get some formal education without traveling and  also as a way
to legitimize what I do. Many other professions and colleges now do this
online, and I don't see what a cantor soloist cannot get more formal
training in the same manner. 

Here is another way I look at it:  I persued BS degree in nursing.etc.
However,within the medical field there are also  LPN's with less training
time,  and others who became nurses AIDES or just volunteers who want to
help patiens  and have had no formal education; but all these levels have
different skills and all have a place in the system and all benefit from
training and education within the skills of what they have and what they are
"allowed" to do. In fact someone with lesser training may very well be
better than I in interpersonal skills with a patient could do more for that
patient.  And so I look at the different levels of singers/musicians and
the Jewish Community within the skills and abilities and educations we have
- but we can always use continuing education in order to improve. 


 This is not about being a "CANTOR" vs a "Cantor soloist" vs a songleader or
about politics or undermining one skill over another.   I am not a Hebrew
scholar or a Hebrew teacher  I just sing ( am not much of a song leader, but
am attempting to do this more, which is another topic on its own, but one
where continuing education would help.)  I don't know how many years I have
left to sing in the public forum, but people seem to like what I do and I
like imparting what I can do for others. This is my so-called immediate
calling, not future ambition.  I am not planning to teach bar/bat mitzvah
students, or do other cantorial duties.  If I went ahead and persued a
cantorial degree or an "official" certification, I may be able to do a lot
of things, but three years from now or 10 years from now there is no
guarantee that I'll be able to sing, which is a definite part of the job. I
also with a large outlay of money in a three to five year program would
probably not find a job that!
  would ju

The situation in NYC and other major cities is not the same situation in
other places. The synagogue where I sing has services only erev shabbat on
the first and third Fridays each month and on holidays and for occasional
Bar/Bat Mittzvas on Saturday (for which I am hired privately by the family
if they want me to be there.)And we do not have regular services during the
summer months.  How many Invested cantors want to work twice a month for
nine months? I can tell you I don't do this for any appreciable income, but
I am fulfilling a need. Our synagogue is almost 20 years old and we rent
space from a church and the congregation numbers about 85 families most of
whom are probably in "mixed" marriages, religiously.  This congregation
cannot afford to hire a fully accredited cantor-period- even if they wanted
to and they are very appreciative to have me there. I never call myself a
"cantor" and I do not expect to attain the same level of achievement, but I
do not see anything w!  rong with

 So I know it has taken me alot of words (and it has been a long day! so
excuse my rambling  and probably my typing) to say that if there were an
online course that I or others in a similar postion could use NOW. we could
achieve more knowledge and skill which to  impart to a congregation and
improve ourselves. I hope this makes a little clearer what my original
comments were about.

Ellen Lerner
Rochester, Ny.


Date: Sunday, August 10, 2003 11:32 am
Subject: [HANASHIR:15041] Re: cantorial certification

> "Paying your dues" in the existing system
> 
> vs
> 
> creative approaches to finding new ways to accomplish the same 
> purpose. I did not hear Ellen as asking for an easy "watered down" 
> version of
> cantorial training.
> 
> Rather, I heard her looking for creative ways to integrate the 
> necessary studies into her existing life, without demanding that she 
> uproot
> herself.
> Certainly it is faster and more intense to immerse oneself in a 
> school 
> program, to study with single-minded devotion, four years to 
> certification.
> But sometimes personal and financial constraints make this 
> impossible. 
> It's not as simple as saying "personal sacrifice is needed", if 
> other 
> people are involved, or if there is simply not enough money.
> 
> So why not offer the option of pursuing these same studies, over a 
> longer period of time, in ways that allow students to integrate their
> studies with other aspects of their lives.
> 
> With modern information technology, many studies can be done 
> long-distance, with on-line discussions and telephone mentorship 
> components.  Those components which require in-person contact (e.g.
> supervision as a cantor-in-training leads services, for example) 
> can be 
> arranged to accomodate the logistical needs of student and 
> teacher.  For 
> example, I've taken intensive courses where we studied 12 hours a 
> day 
> for 5 days - you can pack a lot of learning into 60 hours - and I 
> only 
> had to take one week off work.  For another example, our Rabbi 
> took his 
> PhD long-distance, flying into Toronto every few months to meet 
> with his 
> supervisor.
> 
> It can be _more_ difficult to be a part-time than a full-time student.
> And long-distance studies require focus and commitment as intense 
> as 
> in-person studies.  Those who choose this path, would graduate 
> with much 
> direct life experience, as well as hands-on practice at balancing 
> many 
> different aspects of their life.
> 
> As I understand it, there is a definite shortage of trained Jewish 
> professionals, including rabbis / cantors / and educators.  Why not 
> look at creative new ways to offer the appropriate training, so that 
> it is
> available to a wider group of people?
> 
> Erik, as a member of the board of the American Conference of Cantors, 
> I would hope that you would at least consider these possibilities.
> 
> - Ros Schwartz
> 
> erik contzius wrote:
> > i am GREATLY concerned about postings, such as below, dealing with
> > "cantorial certification." i sit on the board of the American 
> > Conference of Cantors and have also recently sat on some of the 
> > exams for our certification process.
> > 
> > The process is purposely difficult because the job is difficult! the
> > title "cantor" is not one to be earned lightly, otherwise, the title 
> > would mean nothing. the requirements for Hebrew, for example, are 
> > purposefully hefty because we expect cantors to know what they are
> > chanting in hebrew from the inside out. i have a
> > masters degree in sacred music from the hebrew union
> > college because i earned it!
> > 
> > the term "cantor" does not mean what it meant 100
> > years ago, folks. the "job" is not a "job"... it's a calling, just
> > like the "rabbinate" is a calling.
> > 
> > i appreciate anyone who sings in the synagogue. many
> > small synagogues need lay people and trained singers
> > to help empower them in worship. i also appreciate
> > people who wish to study more about jewish music and
> > feel knowlegable in nusakh hat'fillah, cantillation,
> > and the like. i'd love all my congregants to be knowledgeable in
> > jewish musical repetoire.
> > 
> > that doesn't make them a cantor any more than studying
> > the bible weekly and learning how to decode one page
> > of talmud makes them a rabbi. a Cantor is Clergy.
> > anyone interested in pursuing a career as a cantor (or
> > a "certified cantor") needs to take it seriously. in
> > the winter issue of Reform Judaism, there is going to
> > be published a large article about how the career of
> > the cantor has changed drastically over the last 50
> > years (i'm working on that as well!).
> > 
> > Friends, i mean this with the utmost respect--i take
> > my career path extremely seriously. i do not want to
> > see the level of my profession diminished by any sort
> > of so-called "certification process" which does not
> > expect any less of a candidate what the Hebrew Union College or the
> > Jewish Theological Seminary would expect. When i call someone a 
> > "colleague," it is because i know that their level of training,
> > commitment, and knowledge is on par with mine. it
> > doesn't mean we sing the same music, nor have the same
> > level of expertise in every area--but our background
> > is common.
> > 
> > i'm sorry if people do not feel they can commit their
> > lives (via family transplantation, time commitment,
> > etc.), but i've seen it all--when i was in the
> > seminary, a fellow student, a single mom, brought both
> > of her children (7 & 5) to israel with her and
> > completed her rabbinic studies in cincinatti. i know everyone has
> > their own stuff to deal with. but that's what committment really 
> > means--some personal sacrifice.
> > 
> > not trying to be preachy here, folks, just tellin' it
> > like it is.
> > 
> > btw, fyi i'm also an alumni recruiter for HUC
> > (rabbinic, cantorial, ed., etc). if you're interested
> > in any of the programs that the HUC has to offer, feel
> > free to send an e-mail. i won't be able to reply until thursday, as
> > i'll be running the rozhinke retreat this
> > week: http://rozhinke.org/
> > 
> > all the best,
> > erik
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Someone last week or so sent a posting about
> >>cantorial certification. I know some people who have independent
> >>certifications for rabinial studies, and becomed ordained,  and I 
> >>thought about cantorial certification;  I would like to find or 
> >>suggest to you professionals out there  an online or
> >>independent certification program for those of us
> >>who are solosits or songleaders with experience
> >>and/or cantorial jobs (full or part time or
> >>occasional)  and who want to further our education
> >>and receive some kind of offical recognition as well
> >>as have a disciplined way to increase our knowledge
> >>without having to travel. 
> >>
> > 
> > 
> >>As the writer of the post had mentioned, the
> >>requirements in Hebrew (for example)for the
> >>certification now available are a little hefty for
> >>some of us. I have been learning a bit on my own and
> >>did at one time take local clases, but I am quite
> >>far from being able to pass the entrance
> >>requirements and as far as my cantorial singing
> >>goes, it helps to know as much of the language as
> >>possible, but I do most of the singing from transliteration.
> >>Besides, As much as I want to improve, I have a family to take care 
> >>of, I am an "older" citizan, I have other responsibilities, I do
> >>have a cantorial job, and I find it improbable  to
> >>go to NYC, or CINC. or LA, etc. But what I can do is
> >>be on a computer, make tapes if need be for a
> >>course, whatever it takes.  
> >>
> >>If any of you hear of anything like this, I hope
> >>you'll post it. BTW, I did once go many eons ago to
> >>NYC for a three or four day course for Temple
> >>Musicians, and it was very valuable.
> >>
> >>Ellen Lerner
> >>Congregatation Etz Chaim
> >>Rochester, Ny
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > =====
> > Cantor Erik L. F. Contzius
> > New Rochelle, New York
> > 
> > COME TO THE ROZHINKE RETREAT: http://rozhinke.org/
> > http://community.webshots.com/user/eriklfc
> > http://soundswrite.com/swstore1.html#howexcellent
> > http://tinr.org/
> > 
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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