[HANASHIR:14338] Re: Hatikvah

[Freedabet <Freedabet...>]

The oldest Israeli source on my shelf (undated) has the words 'with' "bat."  
But, the revered "Songs we Sing" compiled by Harry Coopersmith (the one that 
caused many folk tunes to be attributed to him) has the words 'without' 
"bat".  There must be a good explanation for it.  

Perhaps there is a hint in 'The Jewish Center Songster' (undated) which shows 
two sets of lyrics, the second noted as 'Israeli' (as we know it, without 
'bat').  The volume was proofread by Israel Goldfarb, so you think he would 
have noticed such an 'error.'  There is a note - "The second verse is the 
version sung in the newly established State of Israel."  The first version in 
this volume ends:

Ha--tikva hanoshana
|: Lashuv l'eretz avoteinu
L'ir ba David, David chana. :|

The new Shireinu has the 'correct' lyrics with the 'traditional' lyrics in 
parenthesis. 

With such pillars of American Jewish music in the 50s making such an 'error' 
(or was it?), it is understandable that this version gained credibility and 
persists.

There is no doubt (as with many traditional Jewish songs with incorrect word 
accents, pronunciation, etc.) that we'll be stuck with this problem for at 
least a generation AFTER we start teaching it this way universally in our 
schools.

Michael



-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------

> Date: Monday, 19-May-03 11:35 PM
> 
> From: rahel                    \ Internet:    (rahel (at) empire(dot)net)
> To:   Hanashir Mail Server     \ Internet:    (hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org)
> 
> Subject:  [HANASHIR:14323] Re: Hatikvah
> 
> Sender: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Reply-to:       hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> To:     hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> Shalom,
> 
> I have looked through every single one of the sites that Aura listed. Out 
> of all the sites, only ONE left out the word "bat". I would say that 
> clearly indicates that the final version of Israel's NATIONAL ANTHEM ought 
> to be sung the way it is sung in Israel - WITH the "bat".
> 
> As for your director of education.... it's probably time for him/her to 
> accept the fact that Israel DOES, in fact, exist, that it is a part of our 
> heritage as Jews, and that it has a national anthem that has definite and 
> clearly written lyrics - just like the Star Spangled Banner does - and it's 
> time to learn them.
> 
> It is also your job, as music director, to teach Israel's national anthem 
> correctly.
> 
> Rahel
> 
> 
> At 06:59 AM 5/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Okay, I really hate to be redundant, but since my e-mail has pooped out on 
> >me and has deleted ALL of the messages I had saved as reference, I don't 
> >have a choice. So here's my question, and my quest...
> >
> >I need to find the history of Hatikvah, lyrics and music. My Director of 
> >Education also wanted to find out if other schools are singing with or 
> >without the Bat. He regards it more of what's tradition here (akin to 
> >Sephardic and Askenazi pronounciation of Hebrew) rather than solely what 
> >is sung in Israel. He feels that if we teach it with the Bat in school and 
> >our cantor sings it without the Bat, or students go somewhere else and 
> >sing it where they are singing without the Bat, that they will feel like 
> >they're doing it wrong. I know this will make many of you angry. I 
> >explained that singing without the Bat would be like Israelis altering 
> >America's National Anthem. So...I ask for your 
> >suggestions...input...information.
> >
> >Thanks for helping me beat a dead horse a little bit more!
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 

-------- REPLY, End of original message --------

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