[HANASHIR:11667] Re: point of information

[Shirona <shirona...>]

Thank you for this very interesting information - it's good to finally know 
some facts!

I personally owe a lot to this song...it was disliking it *so much* that 
prompted me to start composing liturgical music that would sound more 
"Jewish"...which to my ears would have to sound more Eastern European...and why 
is that?  Because growing up in Israel (secular) - the musical "bridge" between 
the secularists and the religious was Hassidic music, which "crossed over" into 
the popular scene in Israel in the late 60's.  And the Hassidim got their music 
from where they originated... Eastern Europe. 

So my first composition was a tune for Ein Keloheinu (it's on my CD) - I first 
sang it for Debbie Friedman at my first HN - (nervous as hell...;-)  but my 
goal was to compose a "Hassidic" type melody that would sound like it's always 
been around. THAT would undoubtedly be "Jewish"!  Debbie was amazingly 
supportive... and now ( one CD later and another in the works) - I'm on the 
road to the Cantorate.  My secular Israeli friends are afraid I'm becoming a 
"ba'al t'shuva"...what do they know about "being Jewish"...;-)

Anyway, it's all very subjective... styles come and go. Adrian is right - it's 
all about the text, and if the music helps people connect to the text - then 
it's doing it's job.

Shirona
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
 Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
Listen to my music at www.mp3.com/shirona
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sharon Steinberg 
  To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org 
  Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 2:29 AM
  Subject: [HANASHIR:11661] Re: point of information


  Dear all,

  quoting from the Idelsohn book "Jewish Music" page 238

  Hirsch Goldberg...served there (Seesen) until 1842 and was then appointed 
chazzan in Brunswick...together with Julius Freudenthal, Dukal musician, he 
modernized the Synagogue song and published in 1843 a collection of songs for 
solo and small choir in two parts.  To this songster Freudenthal contributed 
several tunes and, especially his famous tune for En Kelohenu, which he had 
composed in 1841.  e has the typical German melodic line, and in its first part 
resembles a German melody of 1774 (Grosser Gott wir loben dich, Herr wir 
preisen deine starke....)., which was reworked in 1819 and in 1844 and 
published in 1844.  

  I understand that some of Idelsohn's research is questionable because of 
bias, but this is probably an accurate summation of the origin of the song in 
question.

  Sharon Steinberg
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: erik contzius
    Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:18 PM
    To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
    Subject: [HANASHIR:11659] point of information

    > The popular "Ein
    > Keloheinu" is, alas, a German drinking song....

    Actually, it's not a drinking song... wish i had a
    dime for every time i hear that said. it is attributed
    to Freudenthal, and until i see some real scholarship
    to prove otherwise, i'm stickin' to it. why? because
    there are other through composed hymns written in
    europe for the synagogue which are in the same style.
    if i had some clear, ethomusicological evidence that
    this indeed was a drinking song, and thus a folksong
    without attribution, found and/or notated with other
    words, i'd buy it.

    But it's never listed as, "trad." or "folk"... it's
    listed as "Freudenthal." don't forget the composers!
    although the "trad" shema is a viennese waltz, it was
    still written by sulzer.

    erik


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