[HANASHIR:10948] Fw: RE: best site for Hebrew songs!

[Shirona <shirona...>]

> As the famous Rabbi said:  "You're both right"... (meaning - us)
>
> It's just that the internet changed everything - in the way that
> industrialization changed world economy several centuries ago. You can't
> base an industry on people's morals and decency - you need alot more
> "tachles" than that, and it's not just the music industry that's shaking
in
> it's pants. My knowledge is very sketchy about this topic - but I think I
> get the bigger picture.  It's very possible that in the near future
> businesses like publishers and distributors will no longer be needed...or
at
> least not in the way we're used to.
>
> Personally I'm right in the middle of the camp that has the most to lose -
> the creative community - but I'm trying to stay realistic about the
> changes.  You really can't fight changes that happen with the force and
> velocity of the internet. You have to adapt.
>
> I think I'm drifting too far off the topic.  I agree that a collective
> internet-based clearing house is a great idea.  What ever happened with
that
> idea?  I've heard of many "nightmare" stories from people who tried to get
> permission to use published works through ACUM (the Israeli "ASCAP") - so
we
> need to make the process of getting permission much easier.
>
> Off to San Francisco for the "Chochmat Halev" conference on Jewish
> Meditation, back in a week.
>
> Shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
>  Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
> Listen to my music at www.mp3.com/shirona
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Durlester" <education(dot)director (at) bethelhebrew(dot)org>
> To: "Hanashir" <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>
> Cc: "Shirona Kaufman" <shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net>
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 11:15 AM
> Subject: RE: [HANASHIR:10937] RE: best site for Hebrew songs!
>
>
> > Shirona:
> >
> > Your comparison is apples and oranges. A web site is available to the
> > public. That's a very different thing than in-house fair use for
> educational
> > or religious purposes.
> >
> > And do the overall benefits outwiegh the legalities? I'm not so sure. If
> > everyone just copies freely, makes all their own shironim, then a whole
> lot
> > of other people are affected: publishers (and their employees),
composers,
> > clearing houses (and their employees.)
> >
> > I share your passion for spreading, sharing and using Jewish music to
> > further the teaching of Judaism, Jewish heritage, Torah, values and even
> > just for the sake of art. I often freely give of my musical gifts. It's
> > comfortable and easy to rely on the old canard of "doesn't just sharing
> > music with the children matter more?" Hits us all right in the gut. But
> the
> > equation is not as simple as you suggest.
> >
> > As has been stated on this list time and time again, MOST composers of
> > Jewish music might freely give permission to use their lyrics in a
shiron
> > for use in a synagogue or religious school. The mioght even give
> permission
> > to have them posted tpo a web site, and even to have sound files posted.
> So
> > once again, for me, the issue boils down to laziness. If all of us would
> > take the extra time to simply offer the courtesy of trying to obtain
> > permission, this would be a none issue.
> >
> > But as long as the attitude you endorse prevails, most people won't
bother
> > with this appropriate courtesy.
> >
> > I'm not saying don't make shironim, and don't post lyrics to web sites.
> I'm
> > saying "ASK FIRST." I think that is a reasonable and fair position.
> >
> > And I still think the only way to make this happen is for all of us to
> band
> > together and create a Jewish music clearing house, just like the Church
> > Music Publishers Association has done. I reiterate my call for
discussion
> of
> > creating such an entity.
> >
> > B'vracha
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> > Adrian A. Durlester, M.T.S.  - adrian (at) durlester(dot)com
> > http://www.durlester.com/
> > Director of Education, Beth El Hebrew Congregation, Alexandria, VA
> > Conference Chair, CAJE 27, Aug. 4-8, 2002, Trinity Univ., San Antonio,
TX
> > List-Owner for hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Co-Owner for L-Torah (at) 
> > shamash(dot)org
> > http://uahc.org/hanashir
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:owner-hanashir (at) 
> > > shamash(dot)org] on
> > > behalf of Shirona [SMTP:shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net]
> > > Reply To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:hanashir (at) 
> > > shamash(dot)org]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002, 9:48:27
> > > To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > Subject: [HANASHIR:10937] RE: best site for Hebrew songs!
> > >
> > > Adrian,
> > >
> > > Perhaps there is a violation of copyright law. If you want to look at
> this
> > > entire endeavor through a 'legal' lens.  There are other ways of
looking
> > at
> > > things - whereby you might ask yourself if the overall benefits
outweigh
> > > the
> > > detriments. For example - -
> > >
> > > Several years ago I was the music teacher at another synagogue (not
> where
> > I
> > > teach now, which is Westchester Reform Temple), and I wanted to put
> > > together
> > > a Shiron, a songbook for the Hebrew school.  Simply to copy all the
> lyrics
> > > of the songs we teach during the year and put them in a binder.  Guess
> > > what - the Rabbi "vetoed" that project because of copyright violation.
> > > Legally he had all the "right" reasons why NOT to do this.
> > >
> > > So instead of having a nice Shiron that the children can hold and
treat
> > > respectfully - we were reduced to loose photocopies that ended up
> crumpled
> > > up, if not as paper airplanes...So in the end it all came down to
> > > *binding*!!  It was OK to make loose copies of a song, but NOT OK to
> bind
> > > them together into a shiron, even if it was strictly for educational
> > > purposes, and not for sale or profit.
> > >
> > > Isn't this absurd??  And who lost?  The kids, of course.  Do you think
> the
> > > composers of the songs we ended up NOT teaching because distributing
> loose
> > > sheets takes up half the time allocated to music "won" a legal, or
> > > financial
> > > victory?  The rabbi was convinced he was doing "the right thing" - but
I
> > > believe that it was pure "lose-lose" for everyone. Mostly the
> composers...
> > >
> > > My point is that before we get too caught up in a legal "plonter" (a
> knot,
> > > in Yiddish) - we should survey the "big picture" and determine if
anyone
> > > really "looses" anything, thereby justifying  aggressive law
> enforcement.
> > > In
> > > other words - do we want to "win the battle but lose the war", when it
> > > comes
> > > to educating children and spreading Jewish culture throughout the
world.
> > >
> > > Shirona
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> > >  Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
> > > Listen to my music at www.mp3.com/shirona
> > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Adrian Durlester" <adrian (at) durlester(dot)com>
> > > To: "Hanashir" <hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org>; "'Shirona'"
> > > <shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:18 PM
> > > Subject: [HANASHIR:10936] RE: best site for Hebrew songs!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Except that, dear Shirona, this site is clearly in violation of
> > > > copyright laws, as many, many of the songs listed lack attributions,
> and
> > > > there's no indication that the many sound files are posted with
> > > > permission. Some members of this list besides yourself have lyrics
and
> > > > sound files posted on that site, I suggest they check that out and
> > > > correspond with the site's creator.
> > > >
> > > > Adrian
> > > > Adrian A. Durlester, MTS
> > > > E-mail: adrian (at) durlester(dot)com  URL:www.durlester.com
> > > > Director of Education, Beth El Hebrew Congregation, Alexandria, VA
> > > > Chair, CAJE 27, August 4-8, 2002, Trinity University, San Antonio,
TX
> > > > List Owner, hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org; Jewish 
> > > > Songleaders/Performers List
> > > > Co-Owner, l-torah (at) shamash(dot)org; Liberal Torah Discussion List
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: owner-hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:owner-hanashir (at) 
> > > > > shamash(dot)org]
> on
> > > > > behalf of Shirona [SMTP:shirona (at) bellatlantic(dot)net]
> > > > > Reply To: hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org [SMTP:hanashir (at) 
> > > > > shamash(dot)org]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002, 13:11:52
> > > > > To: jewish-music (at) shamash(dot)org; hanashir (at) shamash(dot)org
> > > > > Subject: [HANASHIR:10930] best site for Hebrew songs!
> > > > >
> > > > > In case you missed this one - check out this site!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > www.hebrewsongs.com
> > > > >
> > > > > great resource, great opportunities.
> > > > >
> > > > > Happy Adar,
> > > > > Shirona
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > > > Singer, Songwriter and Teacher of Jewish Music
> > > > >  Visit my website at    www.shirona.com
> > > > > Listen to my music at
> > > > > www.mp3.com/shirona
> > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> > > > > ----- End Of Original Message -----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- End Of Original Message -----
> >
> >
>


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